Inovelli Red Series

[aartech]

I understand Inovelli switches/dimmers should work as basic devices, but I'm curious if there is any support for the Red Series features:

 

1. Energy consumption
2. Scene control (trigger program) with double tap, triple tap, etc
3. Control of the built in status LED bar via a program

 

[asbril]

A few weeks ago I installed an Inovelli Red Series ON/OFF switch and last week it suddenly stopped communication with my ISY, though the manual switch controls kept working. After some other not working methods, I did a factory reset of the switch and re-included it in ISY, and it worked again. Just for information.

As I have mentioned before, Inovelli is innovative (as their name suggests) but I have more failures with their switches than with GE/Jasco or Homeseer devices.

Some time ago I bought a Inovelli motion sensor, but it is not very accurate. So far I have not succeeded to to a factory reset of that sensor and will need to get instructions from the company.

[io_guy]

On 8/28/2020 at 1:46 PM, aartech said:

I understand Inovelli switches/dimmers should work as basic devices, but I'm curious if there is any support for the Red Series features:

 

1. Energy consumption
2. Scene control (trigger program) with double tap, triple tap, etc
3. Control of the built in status LED bar via a program

 

I don't see energy consumption but scene control and LED notifications work.  

[asbril]

I have been told, on the Inovelli forum, that I should upgrade the Inovelli switch firmware. Does ISY 5.3.1 allow for ota firmwate upgrade ?

Edited December 6, 2020 by asbril

[Michel Kohanim]

@asbril,

Not yet.

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

2 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@asbril,

Not yet.

With kind regards,
Michel

Michel, I like the not YET

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi @asbril,

Me too! What I don't like is that it will require yet another certification!

With kind regards,
Michel

[lilyoyo1]

12 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hi @asbril,

Me too! What I don't like is that it will require yet another certification!

With kind regards,
Michel

Sounds like it's better to wait until ISY is ported to Polisy and release with 700 series 

Edited December 8, 2020 by lilyoyo1

[asbril]

A tip for Inovelli users.

From time to time, one or another of my Inovelli switches stops working. Initially I took out the switch, do an exclude and include, and I even replaced a switch all together. However, I now know that in most cases the solution is to turn off-and-on the specific circuit breaker and that will do the job.

[DaveF]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:56 PM, asbril said:

A tip for Inovelli users.

From time to time, one or another of my Inovelli switches stops working. Initially I took out the switch, do an exclude and include, and I even replaced a switch all together. However, I now know that in most cases the solution is to turn off-and-on the specific circuit breaker and that will do the job.

I had a similar situation with one of their original dimmers.  It stopped responding to local control, but still responded to the ISY.  Went through troubleshooting with Inovelli and was going to replace it with another dimmer.  Turned off the circuit breaker to replace it but remembered that I forgot to exclude it.  Turned the breaker back on and it started working fine.

[asbril]

I just read this post from Inovelli's Eric on their roadmap. https://community.inovelli.com/t/2021-2022-roadmap/8699

I note their direction of Zigbee for mass market and Zwave for techies. As I have not given much attention to Zigbee, I am not sure to understand the logic. Other may have a better understanding.

 

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

As I have not given much attention to Zigbee, I am not sure to understand the logic. Other may have a better understanding.

Mass market with Zigbee and upcoming Matter is targeting the low end DIY hub systems and especially the Amazon Echo and Google/Nest trying to evolve into "hubs".  Amazon tried with the Echo Plus several years ago and is now expanding the zigbee functionality into their other Echo devices as the mass consumer market are adopting things. 

It's also cheaper to manufacture a Zigbee device and have it certified through the Zigbee Alliance as each vendor doesn't have to pay for the full certification cost.  They can piggy-back the certification by using the "pattern" of an existing device such as a light switch/dimmer and using the "verified" chipset and ZCL (Zigbee Command Library).  This significantly reduces cost of development and manufacturing of devices.

Zigbee is actually a great protocol to use for lighting which is why the majority of "bulbs" use it.  The commands can be grouped and sent to give the synchronous lighting like Insteon does with multicast messaging.  Z-Wave just can't do this as it's not a protocol level functionality (yet).

Continuing to produce devices for Z-Wave is to keep security panel vendors and for semi-professional and professional systems that support Z-Wave (most of them).  I don't think there will be any "new" innovation from Inovelli in regards to Z-Wave devices though or at least not for a while until they fill the coffers with funds from the mass market (consumer) sales.

[asbril]

7 hours ago, simplextech said:

I don't think there will be any "new" innovation from Inovelli in regards to Z-Wave devices though or at least not for a while until they fill the coffers with funds from the mass market (consumer) sales.

Thanks so much for your extensive explanation. The quoted above is exactly what I believe, in that Inovelli can not afford substantial more Zwave innovation. I wonder whether the company will ultimately survive.

My experience with Inovelli switches and bulbs is that, yes indeed, they bring new and interesting products but I also have more issues with Inovelli than with most other brands. The light bulbs give me constant coms error messages in the Administrative Console, even though they work fine, and the 'No Neutral Needed' switches as well as their other switches, either need the occasional factory reset or other remediation.

Edited July 26, 2021 by asbril

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

Thanks so much for your extensive explanation. The quoted above is exactly what I believe, in that Inovelli can not afford substantial more Zwave innovation. I wonder whether the company will ultimately survive.

My experience with Inovelli switches and bulbs is that, yes indeed, they bring new and interesting products but I also have more issues with Inovelli than with most other brands. The light bulbs give me constant coms error messages in the Administrative Console, even though they work fine, and the 'No Neutral Needed' switches as well as their other switches, either need the occasional factory reset or other remediation.

I think they are moving to ZigBee to survive. Trying to be innovative is a costly endeavor... especially when you consider the limited market appeal any given product will have. 

Power users (such as those on this forum) can allow a company to grow it's brand but ultimately it's unsustainable. That's why you see most products being released for mass market appeal vs directly what we want. 

All this goes with my same thoughts on insteon's new product line and their other business moves. Creating new devices, maintaining a full suite of products in addition to adding a while bunch of features that power users want isn't cheap. 

Take you for example. The avg user isn't keeping their console open 24/7 to know devices are causing errors. They only see things working. They wouldn't know of background problems. And if they do notice, they are more likely to dismiss things since the device works like normal. A power user on the other hand will be a support nightmare. They'll tie up support lines, want replacement products, and move on from that company leaving bad reviews behind (not saying that's you).