Brilliant meets ISY

[randyth]

With the state of Insteon being what it is, RA3 months away, and a house full of dead or dying Insteon switches, I took a small plunge into Brilliant, purchasing a Home Control unit and a few of their Smart Dimmers. They truly are quality-looking devices with great build quality.

I am concerned with how young and unproven the Brilliant company and their products are, and I am equally concerned by how reliant their system might be on the cloud (what happens to my devices if Brilliant closes shop?). That said, the Brilliant Home Control unit is a pretty sexy device and I figured if all I got out of this was an overpriced wall-mounted controller for my Sonos, I’d feel OK.

Brilliant meets ISY

Of course, one of my first tasks was to see if I could get the Brilliant devices talking to my ISY. As a test, I wanted to get a Brilliant Dimmer to control a light connected to an Insteon switch. Currently, Brilliant has no support for Insteon (why would they at this point) or ISY (understandably, since Brilliant is largely a “controller” just like ISY). Brilliant also has no public API for their system (yet).

All that said, Brilliant supports a ton of protocols, including Hue. This made me think…

Brilliant->Hue->Polyglot/Hue Emulator->ISY

Simple, right? Well, as you can see from this thread and others like them, it's not. But, I am nothing if not stubborn -- er -- I mean persistent!

The main issue here is that Brilliant requires a Hue hub/bridge to use port 80. And, as I discovered, it's not easy to make that happen. Yes, the Hue Emulator has the option to change its port, but port 80 is reserved on Polisy for Polyglot's web UI and (as of this writing) you cannot change this without breaking things. Additionally, you cannot use port 80 on most (all?) Linux distros unless you run as root, which Polyglot does not do by default. In any case, enough of the blah, blah, blah...

Here’s a brief summary of the steps I took to get it to work:

• Install Raspberry Pi OS Lite (Legacy) onto an RPi. I used an RPi3 but it likely works on an RPi2 as well. Please note that you must use the Legacy version of the Raspberry Pi OS or Polyglot won't run.
• Install PG2
• Follow these instructions to fix the “ee key too small” error.
• SSH into your RPi and enter these commands:

sudo service polyglot-v2 stop
sudo service mongodb stop
cd /usr/lib/systemd/system
nano polyglot-v2.service

   Replace the User=pi line in polyglot-2.service with this:

Environment="HOME=/home/pi"

   Save the file (ctrl-O ) and exit (ctrl-X); then restart Polyglot with these commands:

sudo systemctl daemon-reload
sudo service mongodb start
sudo service polyglot-v2 start

• Open Polyglot on your RPi (https://[ipaddress]:3000) and install the Hue Emulator node server, following all the instructions to set it up with an ISY device and/or scene exposed.
• Go to the node server’s Configuration page and change hue_port to 80.
• Restart the node server.
• Follow Brilliant’s instructions on adding Hue lights to their system
• If all goes well, the Hue Emulator devices will appear on your Brilliant Home Controller!

Hopefully, I didn't leave out any key parts above, just all the head banging and blind alleys I went down along the way. 

 

ISY->Alexa Routine->Brilliant (going the other way)

If an Alexa is part of your setup, having ISY control Brilliant devices is a bit easier. Because Brilliant can expose its devices and scenes to Alexa, you can use ISY-triggered Alexa Routines to control them.  Just be aware that this is a cloud-based solution that requires a subscription to the ISY Portal (which you already have, right?).

 

Temporary Solutions

I truly hope my hacky way of getting these two systems to talk to each other is only temporary. Long haul, I hope Brilliant adds official support for ISY. Agree? Then please let your voice be heard by going here and clicking on the Submit Request button at the bottom of the screen.

Cheers,

-Randy
 

[Jimbo.Automates]

Great job figuring all this out! That's bad that they don't respect the port. The HueEmulator sends a response telling it what port to use.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[carealtor]

11 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Great job figuring all this out! That's bad that they don't respect the port. The HueEmulator sends a response telling it what port to use.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

With this knowledge, is there the possibility of "fixing" the HueEmulator?

[randyth]

11 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Great job figuring all this out! That's bad that they don't respect the port. The HueEmulator sends a response telling it what port to use.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

It's sloppy on Brilliant's part, but apparently Brilliant isn't the only "Hue-compatible" device with this issue.

In any case, thanks so much for creating the HueEmulator node server. It is really quite useful. I'm hoping you are planning to port it to PG3 (and that PG3/Polisy allow it to use port 80, of course).

[oberkc]

I am equally hopeful that I can someday use a Brilliant touch pad with the Hue Emulator.  I am not overly knowledgeable regarding ports, but it does seem port 80 is a popular number.  I did not check, but I am thinking that the actual hue hub also tries to use port 80 and I recall a couple of other devices I have that try the same thing.  Was port 80 also the default port for the ISY, itself?  Can one have multiple devices on one's network competing for that special port?

[randyth]

28 minutes ago, oberkc said:

I am equally hopeful that I can someday use a Brilliant touch pad with the Hue Emulator.  I am not overly knowledgeable regarding ports, but it does seem port 80 is a popular number.  I did not check, but I am thinking that the actual hue hub also tries to use port 80 and I recall a couple of other devices I have that try the same thing.  Was port 80 also the default port for the ISY, itself?  Can one have multiple devices on one's network competing for that special port?

You can have more than one device on your network that uses port 80. That's no problem. But, you can't share ports on any one device. So, if Polyglot's web UI is on port 80 of Polisy, nothing else on Polisy can use that port.

The real solution here is to avoid the Hue Emulator and convince Brilliant to support ISY, either by adding ISY support to their Home Control system or by providing an API for Universal Devices to use.

If you haven't already, please add your voice to this cause by going here and clicking on the Submit Request button found at the bottom of their website.

[oberkc]

3 hours ago, randyth said:

The real solution here is to avoid the Hue Emulator and convince Brilliant to support ISY, either by adding ISY support to their Home Control system or by providing an API for Universal Devices to use.

Or...use a different port for Polisy?

 

[randyth]

46 minutes ago, oberkc said:

Or...use a different port for Polisy?

 

That would be a good interim solution, but I'd rather have a more direct (Brilliant<->ISY) connection between the two than one that uses an intermediary (Brilliant->Hue/HueEmulator->ISY + ISY->Alexa->Brilliant). The HueEmulator also can't support all features your devices might have because it has to make them all look like Hue devices.

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, randyth said:

but I'd rather have a more direct (Brilliant<->ISY) connection between the two than one that uses an intermediary (Brilliant->Hue/HueEmulator->ISY + ISY->Alexa->Brilliant).

The only "direct" support for ISY would be via Insteon or z-wave/zigbee (or x-10, I suppose), correct?  All other interface to ISY would be via node servers, I understand, or via a network resource.  To ask brilliant to incorporate Insteon is unlikely to happen, in my estimation.  I suppose they could add a ziggbe or zwave radio, but they currently do not include these, so this would require replacing the brilliant controllers that we have.  No, I suspect node servers are here to stay to have any hope of working with ISY.  Maybe there could be a dedicated brilliant node server instead of the hue emulator, but this is not something that Brilliant could address by itself.

[randyth]

11 minutes ago, oberkc said:

The only "direct" support for ISY would be via Insteon or z-wave/zigbee (or x-10, I suppose), correct?  All other interface to ISY would be via node servers, I understand, or via a network resource.  To ask brilliant to incorporate Insteon is unlikely to happen, in my estimation.  I suppose they could add a ziggbe or zwave radio, but they currently do not include these, so this would require replacing the brilliant controllers that we have.  No, I suspect node servers are here to stay to have any hope of working with ISY.  Maybe there could be a dedicated brilliant node server instead of the hue emulator, but this is not something that Brilliant could address by itself.

Ah, you are right, of course. The Brilliant<->ISY connection would most likely be through a node server. The problem with the HueEmulator as a solution is that it only supports features offered by Hue devices, and it is a one-way connection. That is, it only allows Brilliant to control ISY devices, not the other way around.

If Brilliant offered an API, someone could develop a Brilliant node server that supports more features and works both directions (i.e., ISY could manipulate a Brilliant Dimmer without going through Alexa).

[Jimbo.Automates]

Brilliant could implement a nodeserver internally, but that's not likely to happen. I've asked them a couple times to create or release a local API with no response.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[carealtor]

Tell me if I'm understanding the problem.

Hue Hubs use port 80.  So, when Brilliant looks for a Hue Hub (real or emulated) it is looking at port 80, and only port 80.  Polisy is at port 80, therefore PG2 HueEmulator can't be on port 80.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Tell me if I'm understanding the problem.
Hue Hubs use port 80.  So, when Brilliant looks for a Hue Hub (real or emulated) it is looking at port 80, and only port 80.  Polisy is at port 80, therefore PG2 HueEmulator can't be on port 80.

Brilliant sends out a request for any hue hubs to reply, HueEmulator responds like it's a hue hub and says it's on port 8082 (for example) but Brilliant ignores the port in the response.. other devices like Harmony respect and use the port in the response. Port 80 is reserved on Polisy so that can't be used.



Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[carealtor]

Well, this is all making sense now.  I now understand why my Home Assistant Hue Emulator works with Brilliant.  It is indeed on port 80.

Sounds like the ideal solution would be to get Brilliant to change their code to "respect and use the port in the response".

Probably a dumb idea because I rarely know what I'm talking about when it comes to such things, but would it be possible to reassign (polisy.ip):8082 (for example) to (someother.ip):80 using router settings?

[randyth]

12 hours ago, Jimbo said:

I've asked them a couple times to create or release a local API with no response.

Me too, but they are a relatively young and growing company with more pressing things to do at the moment. I remain optimistic that they might release one... someday.

For those who want to pester them, you can request they release an API here: https://support.brilliant.tech/hc/en-us/articles/360017751831-Does-Brilliant-have-a-public-API-SDK-to-integrate-with-

[Teken]

I have no use for this integration but wanted to show my appreciation & support for Randy / Others.

It’s safe to say *like always* when it’s time to stand up and be counted there are lots of mouth breathers.

Always talking, but never ever taking a small step to do something so easy like fill out a form which took less than 3 seconds!

This is why there will NEVER be any ISY / Open API made available to the masses!

[Michel Kohanim]

16 minutes ago, Teken said:

This is why there will NEVER be any ISY / Open API made available to the masses!

What does this mean?

With kind regards,
Michel

[Teken]

Just now, Michel Kohanim said:

What does this mean?

With kind regards,
Michel

I'm stating that no matter how easy it is to show your support for something. Even when the OP (Randyth) went out of his way to spoon feed the masses to just click on a link to fill out a form.

There won't be 10 people never mind 100, 1000, 100 000, that will go and click on that link! ? 

 

 

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, randyth said:

For those who want to pester them, you can request they release an API here: https://support.brilliant.tech/hc/en-us/articles/360017751831-Does-Brilliant-have-a-public-API-SDK-to-integrate-with-

Clicked & submitted! Thanks for sharing.  Like @Teken I probably won't need/use, but certainly worth the moment it took to complete the form if it will help others around here.

 

[carealtor]

I submitted a request to Brilliant to "respect and use the port in the response" from the HueEmulator.  This is the response I just received.

 

Hi Tim,

My name is Isaac and I am part of the Customer Support team here at Brilliant. Thank you for reaching out to us.

I don't believe this would be on the product roadmap at this time but I'll put in an integration request for this with our product team for the future.


Regards,

Isaac
Brilliant Customer Support

[TJF1960]

Clicked and submitted. May the force be with you!

[larryllix]

I have never heard the Brilliant name before.

From what I can tell on their website, it would be like building an ISY bridge to a bridge device that talks to other brand hubs / bridge devices, that talk to end devices. This seems to be the style of multi-box system I have been trying to rid my system of...ie: dumped Hue hub and devices already, dumped MiLight hub and lighting already, dumped Wink hubs already.

Even if I was familiar with Brilliant, wouldn't it be better to support ISY controlling these hubs / bridges itself, than adding another box and component into my HA system?

While I agree a user API is always a nice feature, why would I create another  account, with password and account name somewhere, to support something that appears to violate my ISY system ideals? Much more than 3 seconds.

Brilliant may already be written without any user interface and require a major software addition to accommodate their competition controlling their box designed to already be the master controller.

[oberkc]

2 hours ago, larryllix said:

Even if I was familiar with Brilliant, wouldn't it be better to support ISY controlling these hubs / bridges itself, than adding another box and component into my HA system?

I am interested in the Brilliant "switch" as a user interface only...as an alternative to keypadlincs.  It also happens to be a wonderful interface to Sonos, so bonus points there.  I have no intention of using the brilliant as another hub, or as a bridge to other devices, or as a switch controlling a load.  I also don't really care who supports whom, but was hopeful that the hue emulator (an existing node server) would work with the Brilliant much as it does with harmony remotes.

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, oberkc said:

I am interested in the Brilliant "switch" as a user interface only...as an alternative to keypadlincs.  It also happens to be a wonderful interface to Sonos, so bonus points there.

Same here.  I'd add that the ability to view my Ring video doorbell from my desk chair is a bonus as well.  If my ISY could also make use of the built-in motion sensor, then I'd try a few of these, at least.

[randyth]

I agree with @larryllix with how distasteful it was to "pollute" my setup with another hub/bridge requiring me to create yet another cloud account, especially one that pretends to do a lot of things ISY does far better. (Alexa is a similar pollutant I could not resist.) Of course, when their hub looks like this, I just had to try it out:

I'm not planning on using the hub/bridge part of Brilliant to do much more than interface with Sonos and Ring, something ISY can't do properly without a screen + UI code. All other home automation logic will still be done on my ISY.

I do also really like Brilliant's Dimmer switches. And, the Brilliant Dimmer->HueEmulator->ISY works very well. For example, I have a 3-way setup where the load switch is Insteon and the other is Brilliant. It works surprisingly well. I just wish I didn't have to go through Alexa (requiring a round trip through the cloud) to make the ISY control Brilliant.

I cannot recommend Brilliant to anyone at this point. It's too early days for me to make any endorsements. But so far it's been a (mostly) fun adventure.