Routines using ISY variables as motion sensors have stopped working

[tmorse305]

Is anyone else having trouble with routines that use a motion sensor/ISY variable?  The variable is changing, and I can see the motion sensor is triggered in the Alexa app but the routine does not fire.  If I manually trigger the routine it performs the trigger correctly.  There was some discussion in another thread regarding the ISY upgrade to 5.4.0, @Michel Kohanim thought it was Alexa throttling but this is days later and mine still doesn't work.  It looks like an Amazon problem but I'm curious if anyone else is seeing this?

[garybixler]

One thing that has worked for some is to go to your Alexa app and disable and re-enable the device. If that doesn't work an upgrade may be needed. Also there is a 30 sec timer on the device to prevent bouncing. So it may not work immediately.

[larryllix]

Exact same thing here including the testing getting down to amazon. I put in a support complaint a few days ago and got no response.

I suggest other put in an amazon ticket about this also. Mine haven't triggered since Feb 27th.

 

[garybixler]

@tmorse305 I think what was ment is to disable and re-enable your motion sensors on the ISY.

[larryllix]

6 minutes ago, garybixler said:

@tmorse305 I think what was ment is to disable and re-enable your motion sensors on the ISY.

This is not an ISY or ISY Portal problem. ISY programs change the variables and ISY Portal sends the update to the amazon app and it shows a change in status, ecah time within a few seconds. The routine works perfectly when manually tested and the routine is installed and enabled perfectly. The alexa triggers just do not trigger the routine actions to happen. Mine have been enabled, disabled, deleted, rebuilt, rediscovered and tested throughout every stage.  The 30 second delay has been observed, even over the next day many times.

The problem is 100% amazon.s software. I suspect it is amazon's interface with IFTTT has broken.

[garybixler]

I did have the same issue and am working again. Other than an upgrade the disable and re-enable is suppose to fix the issue with 5.4.0. I can't verify that because mine was fixed before that was known.

 

I had upgraded to V5.4.0_2 which so far has fixed the issue. A skill disable enable may be necessary.

[macjeff]

I am working with Michel on this.  I helped a couple of you so far in Private Messages.

Go into Alexa Skills

Disable Alexa Skill

Immediately re-enable skill.  

You dont have to discover devices unless you just added a new device. 

Problem will be fixed UNTIL you restart ISY or Restart Polisy and then you have to do the same.

This started in 5.4.0 and they now have 5.4.0_3 but the issue still exists.

I created a test variable I can turn on and a routine in alexa that fires when that variable is 1.  So I will be testing with tech support.

[larryllix]

If you disable the ISY skill in the Alexa app, all your devices will disappear and all your routines will then need to be rebuilt, selecting the triggers again, and then re-enabled.

I have done this many times in the past. Despite the trigger points in Alexa fully functioning they will still not trigger the routines. This happened a few years ago and Amazon support did something that fixed it back then.

[macjeff]

I helped a couple people off the forum and it worked for then.

I just did the test again.  Rebooted ISY.   Routines would not trigger.

Disabled the skill and then re-enabled it.  Boom it worked.

You DONT delete your devices.  DONT disable the forum.

Just open the alexa app.  Go to skills.   Search for ISY v3.   then hit the disable button.

Then hit the enable button.   Then authorize it with your portal account.   Then it will give you success.

When you close that it will ask you to discover devices. Does not hurt to do that but I also tested without and it still works.

As long as you DONT touch the portal your devices will be fine.

During testing I must have done this 20 times.

 

 

[larryllix]

8 minutes ago, macjeff said:

I helped a couple people off the forum and it worked for then.

I just did the test again.  Rebooted ISY.   Routines would not trigger.

Disabled the skill and then re-enabled it.  Boom it worked.

You DONT delete your devices.  DONT disable the forum.

Just open the alexa app.  Go to skills.   Search for ISY v3.   then hit the disable button.

Then hit the enable button.   Then authorize it with your portal account.   Then it will give you success.

When you close that it will ask you to discover devices. Does not hurt to do that but I also tested without and it still works.

As long as you DONT touch the portal your devices will be fine.

During testing I must have done this 20 times.

 

 

Each time you disable the skill, all the devices are removed. When you re-enable the skill, an automatic discover is performed and they re-appear. However my routines are always destroyed and they must be rebuilt and re-enabled.

I have done this many times and routines must always be rebuilt.

[macjeff]

3 of us have done this and none of us lost devices.

You have to immediately re-enable the skill and no devices are lost.

No routines are changed.

We are talking Skill called ISY optimized for Smart home v3.

I just called Amazon support.  They said it USED to be that way but now even if you delete a device you must go in and manually delete it. 

So I tried 3 times in a row.  Just DONT discover devices until after you re-enable it.  No devices lost on my end.

So if you are losing devices you have another problem or you are deleting them off the portal and not the alexa account.

The user below posted on this forum and I worked with him doing the same thing and it worked.  This is what fixes it.  If you are worried screenshot all your devices and routines first.  Save your spokens out of the portal.  I did all that before the first test but have not needed them once.

garybixler  

[garybixler]

I'm wondering if the difference in disabling and reenabling the skill might be if it is done through the app or a browser. I used the browser and didn't lose any routines or devices. I did need to add the devices back into the routine and enable the routine.

[tmorse305]

I just tried your method

Delete the skill then reenable it (on phone)

I didn't discover devices

Tried the routine if failed.

Deleted the routine re created it.

Tried the routine it failed

My routine involves IFTTT, do any of your routines use IFTTT?

[macjeff]

I use the app and lost no devices.  Amazon is trying to push people out of the browser to the app so they dont have to support the browser.  I like the browser still for some things but I think Routines is removed from browser.  I know you dont need it for this task though.

But thats for posting you did not lose devices.   I remember years ago that did happen to me and I complained.  The other day I deleted some devices and added new ones with similar names.  When I asked alexa to do something she said there were multiple devices with that name.  I went in and the old ones were still there.  I manually deleted all of those and then discovered devices.

And thats another point.  Even if you delete every device you can just discover devices again and they come right back.  There is a chance the program would be messed up.  Its the portal thats the real brain here.

[macjeff]

6 minutes ago, tmorse305 said:

I just tried your method

Delete the skill then reenable it (on phone)

I didn't discover devices

Tried the routine if failed.

Deleted the routine re created it.

Tried the routine it failed

My routine involves IFTTT, do any of your routines use IFTTT?

No but you can easily create my test.  And you can try discover devices.

Create a variable named TEST

In the portal expose the variable to alexa as a motion sensor called Test Variable with 1 being motion

Discover devices on alexa.  

Set your variable to 1 while watching the device on the phone in your alexa app

The device should show motion within a couple seconds.

Change variable back to zero.  Now it should show no motion;.

Create a routine    If Test Variable shows motion, then announce something like TEST SUCCESSFUL on your alexa.

Now change variable to 1 again.   Sometimes I had to do this twice but once it works it keeps working on all of them

If it does not work disable the skill and immediately re-enable it.

Try again.

 

My tests works every time.  5.3.0 does not need this.  Tested on 5.4.0_1, 5.4.0_2, and 5.4.0_3

and you may have found another bug with IFTTT.  I know Michel said devices are basically being blacklisted because the Polisy sends stuff so fast compared to old ISY.   So maybe IFTTT is not fast enough and comes in too late.  I am just guessing.  But try without IFTTT and if it works now we have a new issue to report with IFTTT

 

[larryllix]

All my routines use IFTTT. That may be the difference keeping a routine's  trigger with it's missing trigger device. When you remove devices (as in disabling the skill) routine triggers based on those devices become blank and the routine gets disabled.

I may try this again later today but I just finished rebuilding all my routines yesterday from this same technique. It takes about 30 minutes of intense finger poking.

Routines were never available on a Windows browser, only the mobile apps.

I have Alexa vocals that send out test vocal responses as I have had to rebuild these routines dozens of times now, each time devices are deleted by disabling the skill.

[garybixler]

Yes I forgot to mention that I use the browser for device management but need to go to the app for routines and such.

 

[macjeff]

3 minutes ago, garybixler said:

Yes I forgot to mention that I use the browser for device management but need to go to the app for routines and such.

 

Yes Amazon alexa support is pretty much saying dont use the browser.  As I said my guess is a support nightmare with all the browsers- Edge, Explorer, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and others like Opera.

[larryllix]

16 minutes ago, tmorse305 said:

I just tried your method

Delete the skill then reenable it (on phone)

I didn't discover devices

Tried the routine if failed.

Deleted the routine re created it.

Tried the routine it failed

My routine involves IFTTT, do any of your routines use IFTTT?

MY guess it is the IFTTT connection is broken between amazon and IFTTT.

Routines using devices that have been deleted cannot repair themselves to the correct device without human intervention.

There seems to be some confusion between devices and routines here. Sure devices will reappear when you enable the skill to connect with them all again, but the routines will have had no trigger device and remain that way until human intervention.

I have used three different browsers and the amazon webpages have never supported or even displayed Routines. They must be setup via the mobile app.

[macjeff]

9 minutes ago, larryllix said:

All my routines use IFTTT. That may be the difference keeping a routine's  trigger with it's missing trigger device. When you remove devices (as in disabling the skill) routine triggers based on those devices become blank and the routine gets disabled.

I may try this again later today but I just finished rebuilding all my routines yesterday from this same technique. It takes about 30 minutes of intense finger poking.

Routines were never available on a Windows browser, only the mobile apps.

I have Alexa vocals that send out test vocal responses as I have had to rebuild these routines dozens of times now, each time devices are deleted by disabling the skill.

Maybe the reason you lose devices is because of IFTTT.  I dont use it.  Can you not use fake motion sensor variables instead?   Like when my garage door opens I sent GarageDoorOpen to 1 and GarageDoorRelay to 1.   I have a routine that announces when grarage door relay is 1 as Jeff's Garage Door Opened and then when its zero Jeff Garage Door closed.   Then the GarageDoorOpen variable is used at midnight. If its 1 that means the garage door was left open so alexa announces it.  I know I could set a program to close it.  We tried that and my wife left the van back hatch door open and the garage door hit it.  close to 1000 in damage to the door.  So I do the alert and close it manually after looking at camera.

[MrBill]

1 minute ago, macjeff said:

Yes Amazon alexa support is pretty much saying dont use the browser.

You must have a secret phone number to a higher level of echo support.  Most of the time they don't have any idea beyond the basics, and if you want to talk about a skill they have no information and just say to try disabling the skill.

[tmorse305]

15 minutes ago, macjeff said:

Create a variable named TEST

In the portal expose the variable to alexa as a motion sensor called Test Variable with 1 being motion

Discover devices on alexa.  

Set your variable to 1 while watching the device on the phone in your alexa app

The device should show motion within a couple seconds.

Change variable back to zero.  Now it should show no motion;.

Create a routine    If Test Variable shows motion, then announce something like TEST SUCCESSFUL on your alexa.

Now change variable to 1 again.   Sometimes I had to do this twice but once it works it keeps working on all of them

If it does not work disable the skill and immediately re-enable it.

I just tried your test and it still fails even after disable/enable skill.

[tmorse305]

2 minutes ago, larryllix said:

MY guess it is the IFTTT connection is broken between amazon and IFTTT.

The thing is if I manually play the routine the IFTTT fires correctly

[macjeff]

what verson of the ISY   There is a 5.4.0 and a 5.4.0_2 and 5.4.0_3.

sudo service isy stop

sudo pkg upgrade isy

sudo service isy start

 

should bring in 5.4.0_3 which I think is newest.

 

Wonder if 5.4.0 even has issue.  I actually just realized I only did this test on _2 and _3.

 

But it worked for others including me several times.

[larryllix]

1 minute ago, macjeff said:

Maybe the reason you lose devices is because of IFTTT.  I dont use it.  Can you not use fake motion sensor variables instead?   Like when my garage door opens I sent GarageDoorOpen to 1 and GarageDoorRelay to 1.   I have a routine that announces when grarage door relay is 1 as Jeff's Garage Door Opened and then when its zero Jeff Garage Door closed.   Then the GarageDoorOpen variable is used at midnight. If its 1 that means the garage door was left open so alexa announces it.  I know I could set a program to close it.  We tried that and my wife left the van back hatch door open and the garage door hit it.  close to 1000 in damage to the door.  So I do the alert and close it manually after looking at camera.

Amazon Routine announcements require IFTTT.  None of my 40 routines function right now,   despite all just being rebuilt (replaced the skill devices that were removed by disabling the skill) again. All pathways have been tested and function perfectly from ISY to voice output. The Routines are not being trigger by tested and proven alexa devices.