Polisy says "connected" but...

[someguy]

I'm having trouble with a couple of node servers.  I've inquired and they are being worked on, I am told.  Despite them being out of commission, they both say "connected" but they aren't working. 

maybe I need to know what "connected" means.  

could there also be another indicator that tells if the Node server is actually working?  or when it last received data from it's source?

[DennisC]

11 minutes ago, someguy said:

I'm having trouble with a couple of node servers.  I've inquired and they are being worked on, I am told.  Despite them being out of commission, they both say "connected" but they aren't working. 

maybe I need to know what "connected" means.  

could there also be another indicator that tells if the Node server is actually working?  or when it last received data from it's source?

It would help if you provided a little more information, such as:

Version of PG

IoP? - version of software (firmware & UI)

Do they show up in admin console? Exactly what does "aren't working" mean?

 

[Javi]

Due to a design flaw found during a security audit PGC was shutdown until further notice.  So, any PGC Node Servers will have the last status reported to ISY until ISY is restarted.

[someguy]

I am not referring to PGC nodes.

My Polisy Version 2 is running version 2.2.13   frontend version 2.2.9-5

ISY on Poly version 5.4.1 (both firmware and UI)

the problems that I am having with the two node servers are programming problems that both of the Node server authors are working on, or at least i hope they are.  both of the nodes don't work at all, currently.  (but they say "connected" in Polisy.)

[Javi]

Connected Status in the picture is the connection status between the Node Server and Polyglot. States are connected, disconnected, and unmanaged. The status may show connected for a Node Server as long as the connection between Polyglot and the Node Server is not terminated. The Node Server may be able to communicate with Polyglot and show connected even when the Node Server is not "working".  An example would be a Node Server is started and communicating with Polyglot but still needs credentials for the service it supports.

[someguy]

 

On 3/13/2022 at 4:55 AM, Javi said:

Connected Status in the picture is the connection status between the Node Server and Polyglot. States are connected, disconnected, and unmanaged. The status may show connected for a Node Server as long as the connection between Polyglot and the Node Server is not terminated. The Node Server may be able to communicate with Polyglot and show connected even when the Node Server is not "working".  An example would be a Node Server is started and communicating with Polyglot but still needs credentials for the service it supports.

@Javi perhaps I’m splitting hairs, but aren’t the node servers running on Polisy (or a polyglot)? If so, they’ll always be “connected”.  

[larryllix]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:37 PM, someguy said:

I am not referring to PGC nodes.

My Polisy Version 2 is running version 2.2.13   frontend version 2.2.9-5

ISY on Poly version 5.4.1 (both firmware and UI)

the problems that I am having with the two node servers are programming problems that both of the Node server authors are working on, or at least i hope they are.  both of the nodes don't work at all, currently.  (but they say "connected" in Polisy.)

There are two directions of "connection". Are you having trouble with the status getting into ISY, trouble with controlling things from ISY, or both?

I believe the "connected" you see in PG2 is the connection to the end device and not related to ISY.

[Javi]

6 hours ago, someguy said:

 

@Javi perhaps I’m splitting hairs, but aren’t the node servers running on Polisy (or a polyglot)? If so, they’ll always be “connected”.  

I see how it could be confusing.  Maybe better words would be "running" and "stopped".  If a NS does not crash, or does not stop itself, then it should remain "connected" (running) until stopped by the user.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Javi said:

I see how it could be confusing.  Maybe better words would be "running" and "stopped".  If a NS does not crash, or does not stop itself, then it should remain "connected" (running) until stopped by the user.

I think a combination of the 2 should be used. Connected: Running, Connected:Not running, or not connected depending on situation.

This will help with troubleshooting as it'll help users identify where an issue is

[Javi]

15 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I think a combination of the 2 should be used. Connected: Running, Connected:Not running, or not connected depending on situation.

This will help with troubleshooting as it'll help users identify where an issue is

That does make more sense, maybe @bpwwer can chime in regarding this parameter.  I know there are some changed in PG3 regarding status but I'm not up to date with the exact changes.

[bpwwer]

As it's being used to day in PG3, connection status is reporting the connection status of the socket connection between the node server and PG3.   This is monitored and reported by PG3, not the node server.

If that connection is alive, PG3 reports 'connected'.  Depending on how the connection is closed, if by PG3 stopping the node server: 'not connected'.  If by the node server crashing and dropping the connection: 'failed'.

However, in the node, the connection is maintained by a thread while other threads are used for other tasks within the node server (say to maintain a connection with the hardware it supports). Thus it is entirely possible for the some parts of the node server to fail while the connection to PG3 remains alive.

Also, node server don't have to make use of the PG3 connection status. At this point, I believe almost all node servers that report "Node server Online" are using the PG3 connection status, but I'm not sure.  Node servers could report the connection status of their connection to external devices but if they do, I would think they'd use a different name for that.

[someguy]

@Javi

Quote

Connected Status in the picture is the connection status between the Node Server and Polyglot. States are "connected", "disconnected", and "unmanaged".

I guess I have the terminology wrong.  Aren't the node servers, in my diagram below, the little rectangles inside of the Polyglot?

also:  in my diagram, is it Link A or Link B that the PGC reports as "connected"? 

 

in my case, all of my "node servers" on PG3 are indicated as "connected" but some work and some don't.  

[lilyoyo1]

44 minutes ago, someguy said:

@Javi

I guess I have the terminology wrong.  Aren't the node servers, in my diagram below, the little rectangles inside of the Polyglot?

also:  in my diagram, is it Link A or Link B that the PGC reports as "connected"? 

 

in my case, all of my "node servers" on PG3 are indicated as "connected" but some work and some don't.  

The more I see things like this, the more i like @asbril's idea to meet in LA with @Michel Kohanim/UDI to discuss different aspects of the ISY/Polisy future. I think it would be helpful to have a round table discussion with the different types of groups here to help lessen confusion and set on some common themes and ideals. From those helping UDI with coding, to vested developers such as @simplextech and @JimboAutomates,  prosumers such as @MrBill, @Teken, and so called non technical people like @asbril(who isn't kidding anyone). I think it really would do long term good in regards to the next chapter of the ISY before we get so far ahead, its too much to clean up.

With that said, from my understanding (I could be wrong), The connection status would stem from Link A. However, the Weatherflow (just using it as an example) may not actually be talking to weatherflow's servers. In this case, you'd see the connection though you arent receiving updates.

To me, its similar to zwave. If you turn on a door sensor and then remove the battery, the isy will show that its on even though it no longer talking to it. In the eyes of the ISY, the device is connected though not working

 

[asbril]

3 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

technical people like @asbril(who isn't kidding anyone)

Seriously, I may be an advanced user, learning from this forum and from my mistakes, but there is so much that I don't understand. I would definitely not describe myself as technical, though I realize that everything is relative.

I'd love us all to meet in LA and remember that Michel told us that lunch is on him  .

[bpwwer]

1 hour ago, someguy said:

@Javi

I guess I have the terminology wrong.  Aren't the node servers, in my diagram below, the little rectangles inside of the Polyglot?

also:  in my diagram, is it Link A or Link B that the PGC reports as "connected"? 

 

in my case, all of my "node servers" on PG3 are indicated as "connected" but some work and some don't.  

Yes and no.

Polyglot is an application.  It manages node servers.  Node servers are also applications, they just happen to be started and stopped by Polyglot.   Node servers are independent entities.  So technically, the node servers boxes should be outside of the Polyglot rectangle.

Also, node servers don't link to ISY, your Link B, they route everything through Polyglot.

The way PG2 and PG3 implement connection status is different.

With PG2, the node server connects to PG2 and sends a connection status as part of the initial connection handshaking between the node server and PG2.  In this case, connected means that the node server has successfully connected to PG2.  This connection status is held in the node server's controller node's ST driver which is sent to the ISY.

With PG3, when a node server connects to PG3, PG3 marks that node server as connected, when PG3 stops a node servers, it marks that node server is disconnected.  If the connection between PG3 and node server fails, PG3 marks that node server as failed.   This is all internal to PG3 and is what PG3 displays on the dashboard and node server details.  THIS IS NOT SENT TO THE ISY!  However, the node server has the option to configure a node and driver as a connection status indicator and IF it does so, PG3 will automatically update that node/driver with the connection status and send the update to the ISY.

Note that in all of the above, the only thing we are monitoring is the connection between the node server and Polyglot.

If the node server wants to track the connection status between the node server and service/device it can do so, but there is not standardized way for it to report this, it would have to designate a node/driver to hold this information and report it to the ISY.

Also note that there is nothing that is tracking the connection between Polyglot and the ISY.  If there are failures in that communication, the only indication will be errors reported in the respective log files.