larryllix Posted April 22, 2022 Posted April 22, 2022 1 hour ago, smokegrub said: I am here to support UDI in keeping my Insteon Devices up and running. I am 77 years old and have no desire to abandon my Insteon investment in two homes going forward and embrace a new technology. I am ready to invest in two Polisys and support UDI going forward but only if they are able support my Insteon investment otherwise I will likely abandon home automation altogether. That would be a sad day for me. Setting up for a move to an apartment in mid June, I have been removing SwitchLincs from less needed spots in the house for a while now. After not having enough lighting a few nights ago and having to walk around a 30 x 35' Gathering room to turn on lights manually, I tell you it would be hard to walk away from all my HA equipment now. 1
smokegrub Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 7 hours ago, larryllix said: Setting up for a move to an apartment in mid June, I have been removing SwitchLincs from less needed spots in the house for a while now. After not having enough lighting a few nights ago and having to walk around a 30 x 35' Gathering room to turn on lights manually, I tell you it would be hard to walk away from all my HA equipment now. I would be terrible for me as well. It would not only be the cost of the devices but the thousands of hours I have invested in setting all this stuff up and maintaining it. I love the Insteon devices and the way they perform. Personally, I believe the Insteon technology will be in high demand if a competent team acquires and supports it. 7
mmb Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 13 hours ago, smokegrub said: I would be terrible for me as well. It would not only be the cost of the devices but the thousands of hours I have invested in setting all this stuff up and maintaining it. I love the Insteon devices and the way they perform. Personally, I believe the Insteon technology will be in high demand if a competent team acquires and supports it. You expressed my exact feelings.
dbwarner5 Posted April 23, 2022 Posted April 23, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 4:18 PM, Michel Kohanim said: @whywork, thank you so very much. At this juncture, we have a couple and active private equity investors who are interested in the same. Just going through the numbers right now. I shall definitely keep everyone posted. Thanks again so much. With kind regards, Michel Michel, another tech company, Konnected (which manufactures wifi replacement boards for old hardwired security systems), has just completed a crowdfunding on StartEngine for $800,000 of new money. If there was a decent marketing plan to leverage Insteon technology to grow the user base, this may also be a good approach similar to KickStarter. 5
Michel Kohanim Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 Hello all, Apologies for being MIA ... just too many things going on all at the same time. We already submitted an offer just for the PLM license till we further analyze the debt to potential ratio by going through AP/AR and assets. And, in the meantime, the manufacturer in China is already sourcing parts ... so, we'll be ready to go as soon as we get the license. With kind regards, Michel 16
upstatemike Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 Curious if you think there are others bidding on the PLM license or is your offer probably the only one under consideration? In some ways Insteon is kind of a white elephant so I can't imagine there is a lot of competition to invest resources into it?
Michel Kohanim Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 @upstatemike, I think it's more of a piecemeal thing where some bid for patents, some for inventory, some for customer list, etc. I am not privy to the actual bids by others though. Also, at the moment, there are at least 5 parts that cannot be sourced (lead time of 30 weeks). I have asked our own CM to review the design and see whether or not it's possible to use alternatives (requires redesign). I shall keep you all posted. With kind regards, Michel 11 1
upstatemike Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 Redesign = resubmission to UL or ETL though right? Probably no short path no matter what.
Michel Kohanim Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 53 minutes ago, upstatemike said: Redesign = resubmission to UL or ETL though right? Probably no short path no matter what. Depends on the changes but potentially yes plus testing, regression testing, and FCC. With kind regards, Michel 6
Kevin Connolly Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 Michel: You're truly the best. Do keep us all posted. Hopefully everything falls into place. 4
johnmsch Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 @Michel Kohanim Thanks so much for all you do and have been doing for all these years. Can't even count all the times you have helped me. You can definitely put me down for at least 3 PLMs when the day comes. I too have to ask what I can do to help. I would even be ready to invest if/when that day comes. 2
PatPend Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 On 4/21/2022 at 11:08 AM, lilyoyo1 said: Anyone can make a controller to operate insteon devices or their own insteon switch. That isn't infringing on insteon patents or copyrights. If someone makes a controller that performs the steps or includes the elements recited in Insteon's patent(s), it would infringe the patent.
lilyoyo1 Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, PatPend said: If someone makes a controller that performs the steps or includes the elements recited in Insteon's patent(s), it would infringe the patent. You're splitting hairs. A controller by itself doesn't infringe on their patents. The isy, polisy, homeseer, HA, indigo, etc. are all controllers. In fact insteon provides the commands so that you can use your own software to control insteon devices. A controller would infringe on their patents if they copied the PLM or created their own device built into the controller that sends out the insteon signal directly.
PatPend Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: You're splitting hairs. You didn't define what a "controller" was and as such the statement, interpreted broadly, was misleading. 2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: A controller would infringe on their patents if they copied the PLM or created their own device built into the controller that sends out the insteon signal directly. That was exactly my point.
lilyoyo1 Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, PatPend said: You didn't define what a "controller" was and as such the statement, interpreted broadly, was misleading. That was exactly my point. Since you want to create a debate when it has already been clearly established that use of the insteon signal by an unauthorized person would be illegal, i will clarify my statement for you. Any device that has programming ability such as the isy and the multitude of other controllers out there (since none on the market outside of insteon designed hubs has a PLM built in), does not infringe on any patents.
asbril Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Since you want to create a debate when it has already been clearly established that use of the insteon signal by an unauthorized person would be illegal How old is Insteon's patent and when will it expire ? I remember (was it Lutron's ?) the Zwave status reporting's patent expiring in 2016, so what about Insteon ? Edited April 27, 2022 by asbril
lilyoyo1 Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, asbril said: How old is Insteon's patent and when will it expire ? I remember (was it Lutron's ?) the Zwave status reporting's patent expiring in 2016, so what about Insteon ? I think they started in 06 so it would be 2026 if that's the case. If that's so, it'll probably depress the value even more since there's only a limited amount of time to capitalize off it and make your money back (either through product or licensing fees. The way I see things, the longer it takes to sell, the less its worth since any buyer is unlikely to recoup their costs Edited April 27, 2022 by lilyoyo1
PatPend Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, asbril said: How old is Insteon's patent and when will it expire ? I Insteon's "main" patent was filed in 2004. Normally a patent expires 20 years from the date it was filed, so it would expire in 2024 except that, because of delays in the patent office, they got almost two extra years added on. So to be precise it expires Sept. 19 2026. 1
asbril Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: I think they started in 06 so it would be 2026 if that's the case. If that's so, it'll probably depress the value even more since there's only a limited amount of time to capitalize off it and make your money back (either through product or licensing fees. The way I see things, the longer it takes to sell, the less its worth since any buyer is unlikely to recoup their costs I assume that this includes the PLM. If so, as long as you Insteon fans can keep the PLM and switchs alive till then, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If they started selling in 2006, then most likely the patent is a bit older. Edited April 27, 2022 by asbril
lilyoyo1 Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 Just now, asbril said: I assume that this includes the PLM. If so, as long as you Insteon fans can keep the PLM and switchs alive till then, there is a light at the end of the tunnel I don't think so. If it sits for 4 years, why would someone bother resurrecting it? Old users would've moved on by then and new users would have no reason to try it. There just isn't a market for maintenance devices.
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