Small (home) Office router replacement recommendations

[Geddy]

1 hour ago, RPerrault said:

throughput to 4 printers is so bandwidth intensive and time sensitive

You're overthinking my need for the printer connectivity. They're rarely printing, and almost never at the same time. Very little is printed these days, but the printers are not on the desk with the workstations and aren't able to be hard wired to the LAN so they're just wirelessly connected for when needed. 80-90% of office documents are e-filed/stored these days so there might be one or two documents printed a week for hard copy reference. In reality only one printer is needed, but users have their desires to have "their" printer available to them when needed. The current printers are mostly used to scan in hard copies of docs received from vendors. 

 

[RPerrault]

oh - sorry - you must be new - ima snarky somba

but you are right - i was snarking at the other posts 

i posted once that i bought a car with 'gesture control' - thought i really needed it - i was wrong

driving 4 printers and the occasional phone and tablet - you don't need to get a bmw with gesture control - sounds like you were asking more about brands - which i cannot speak to

my point was - if wifi is the only problem - an access point might be cheaper than replacing a router/switch/wifi/firewall/dhcp....device

but you will make the right decision - good luck

 

[Geddy]

3 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

sounds like you were asking more about brands

Yeah, kind of just getting a real life feel for what others use/recommend/suggest.

I've looked at some of the Ubiquiti products, but they're mostly overkill for what I need/want. It's really just a simple setup with low needs and don't need to get all fancy with corporate firewall type setup (been there in the past, and it was a nightmare). But I know people get brand loyal with what works for them at the time. I'm not quite that way and always willing to try different brands that I haven't been using recently. 

If the Dream Router wasn't sold out it might be worthy of more review. 

I think I'm leaning this way - https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09G5W9R6R/ (TP-Link WiFi 6 AX3000), but haven't made up my mind yet. 

10 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

i bought a car with 'gesture control'

Those are called Tesla now. Have you seen how you change the airflow pattern in a Tesla? Just drag your finger over the screen. Insane!

 

[Bumbershoot]

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Wifi 6 (AX) still uses the same 5Ghz band that AC (wifi 5) uses. Wifi 6e uses the 6Ghz band. If you find a good price for a wifi 6e router then I say hop on it.

I don't know, but the eero Pro 6E devices with built-in Zigbee and Thread (Matter) support are starting to look interesting since the demise of Insteon.  Who knows if Matter devices will actually materialize, but you'd still have a WiFi 6e device...  The price isn't too bad, considering the options.

[lilyoyo1]

5 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I don't know, but the eero Pro 6E devices with built-in Zigbee and Thread (Matter) support are starting to look interesting since the demise of Insteon.  Who knows if Matter devices will actually materialize, but you'd still have a WiFi 6e device...  The price isn't too bad, considering the options.

It is interesting but it only Matters (pun intended) for those who are interested in going that route with their systems. I've heard all of this talk for so long that I can't simply jump on board and declare matter the protocol of all things. 

Once Ubiquiti releases a 6e access point (hopefully by the time this house is done), I'll be using that since I'm a Ubiquiti guy. Unless Lutron, UDI (if it supports ra3), or C4 supports matter, it's a non starter for me. For others, I can see the appeal and it would make total sense.

[Bumbershoot]

7 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Unless Lutron, UDI (if it supports ra3), or C4 supports matter, it's a non starter for me. For others, I can see the appeal and it would make total sense.

I have a 20+ year old house which I don't plan on leaving, so if not Insteon, I'm open to whatever wireless solution presents itself (I'm not opening up walls - very low WAF).  I think my ideal world would be for IoP to get a Node server that supports Matter, then I'd have Insteon (I have backup PLMs), Z-Wave, Matter and WiFi device support. 

[lilyoyo1]

23 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I have a 20+ year old house which I don't plan on leaving, so if not Insteon, I'm open to whatever wireless solution presents itself (I'm not opening up walls - very low WAF).  I think my ideal world would be for IoP to get a Node server that supports Matter, then I'd have Insteon (I have backup PLMs), Z-Wave, Matter and WiFi device support. 

I think UDI will support matter if it accomplishes what it says it will and ends up being popular. An argument can be made that it can already do that though Polisy cannot/doesn't support as many devices (due to closed APIs and lack of potential interest).

Matter would help with that so it remains to be seen. Besides the history of broken promises leaving me skeptical, with the way i automate, matter isn't as important at this time for me so im not pushing for it yet... especially since they keep having delays. I just know when there's too many hands in the cookie jar, something will end up missing or broken

[upstatemike]

Here is an example of the latest thinking around Matter:

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

21 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Here is an example of the latest thinking around Matter:

 

 

I said the some of the same stuff he said when they first announced matter. Everyone will make their stuff connect but keep the best features within their won ecosystem. There is zero interest in a company opening themselves up that way.

[Bumbershoot]

I'm just thinking that there may be applicable pieces of Matter that could integrate into the Polyglot universe.

[MrBill]

18 hours ago, Geddy said:

I think I'm leaning this way - https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09G5W9R6R/ (TP-Link WiFi 6 AX3000), but haven't made up my mind yet. 

uggh... I'll never own a TP-link product again.  I've tried twice, both consumed vast amounts of time and were returned within the return window.  I'd buy Netgear again before TP-link.... but you already know my opinion anyway.

[upstatemike]

As always I approach any selection with a checklist of critical features and then look for what ticks all the boxes. For a router it would be:

Multi-WAN with option for failover or load splitting.

Enough RAM and CPU to max out the full available address space without performance issues

No limit to the number of addresses that can be included in the DHCP table

Can manage wireless access points in the same interface that manages the router

All management pages show devices by the name I assign them; I'm not going to troubleshoot a couple of hundred clients using MAC addesses! This needs to include any view of DHCP assignments, active clients, clients connected to wireless access points, session information., etc.

Basic VLAN and Port forwarding 

Some basic rule capability (restrict a certain client to only use a particular WAN port, etc.)

This is pretty basic stuff but it immediately rules out any consumer Mesh solution and a lot of the so called prosumer wireless routers.

[RPerrault]

burned out old hippie who misses his glory days ranting about corporate greed as he sucks at their teat buying their products - (snicker isaidteat)

i suspect he would love insteon - seems like they wanted to be the standard for ha but never opened their market to other vendors - how'd that work out for them - but hey - insteon worked with insteon 

burroughs made a fine mainframe - different architecture than ibm and was superior to ibm in many aspects - burroughs lost 

insteon lost 

ibm set the standards that standards organizations adopted almost entirely - for a time - not because every ibm standard was the best - but ibm was the big dawg and ibm products worked - ibm does not have that clout today

insteon wanted to be ibm - lutron - they would all like to force us to buy their products and only their products - like those fine insteon thermostats and motion detectors - perhaps reluctantly, the ha companies still in the competition are embracing some type of interoperability - not that echobee is going to accept a lutron rf packet - but with enough bubble gum and shoe strings, it could work 

i don't know much about matter - but it is a good concept (for consumers - notsomuch for dealers) - not sure the execution of the idea will be successful but if it could shake out a couple of things, it would be great

carrier - message traffic carrier - if i were king, powerline, rf and dedicated wiring - choose what you want when you develop a product - but the rf seems to be what people are hung up on - since we probably already have wifi coverage, it makes sense to be to use it - dealers might hate it because when they fail with another frequency, they get to sell the customer more crap - 'mesh, robust' blah

packet structure - everyone can tell if the packet is addressed to them 

the hippie - as many here - does not break out the components of communication - just that a phillips hue light bulb and some chinese knockoff don't both accept 4a as a dim command - so everything sucks for him if he can't plug and play

give ud a standard carrier and packet structures and step aside as he unleashes developers to do their nerd stuff - with polygluttonous, you can add support for whatever devices you want to buy - then the hue bulb and the chinese knockoff can both be supported 

matter might or might not make it - it has some big dawgs behind it and none of them will close if matter fails - lutron might not like it if i can use their blinds and someone else's dimmer - but if matter succeeds, they will probably have to embrace it - they know that - better to be open selling matter compliant blinds than losing everything in a closed system

[larryllix]

uggh... I'll never own a TP-link product again.  I've tried twice, both consumed vast amounts of time and were returned within the return window.  I'd buy Netgear again before TP-link.... but you already know my opinion anyway.

I agree. I have heard too many bad reports about that brand. There is a reason they sell for the lowest prices.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Goose66]

58 minutes ago, larryllix said:

I agree. I have heard too many bad reports about that brand. There is a reason they sell for the lowest prices.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
 

Another +1 (or -1) for not buying TP-Link ever again.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, RPerrault said:

burned out old hippie who misses his glory days ranting about corporate greed as he sucks at their teat buying their products - (snicker isaidteat)

i suspect he would love insteon - seems like they wanted to be the standard for ha but never opened their market to other vendors - how'd that work out for them - but hey - insteon worked with insteon 

burroughs made a fine mainframe - different architecture than ibm and was superior to ibm in many aspects - burroughs lost 

insteon lost 

ibm set the standards that standards organizations adopted almost entirely - for a time - not because every ibm standard was the best - but ibm was the big dawg and ibm products worked - ibm does not have that clout today

insteon wanted to be ibm - lutron - they would all like to force us to buy their products and only their products - like those fine insteon thermostats and motion detectors - perhaps reluctantly, the ha companies still in the competition are embracing some type of interoperability - not that echobee is going to accept a lutron rf packet - but with enough bubble gum and shoe strings, it could work 

i don't know much about matter - but it is a good concept (for consumers - notsomuch for dealers) - not sure the execution of the idea will be successful but if it could shake out a couple of things, it would be great

carrier - message traffic carrier - if i were king, powerline, rf and dedicated wiring - choose what you want when you develop a product - but the rf seems to be what people are hung up on - since we probably already have wifi coverage, it makes sense to be to use it - dealers might hate it because when they fail with another frequency, they get to sell the customer more crap - 'mesh, robust' blah

packet structure - everyone can tell if the packet is addressed to them 

the hippie - as many here - does not break out the components of communication - just that a phillips hue light bulb and some chinese knockoff don't both accept 4a as a dim command - so everything sucks for him if he can't plug and play

give ud a standard carrier and packet structures and step aside as he unleashes developers to do their nerd stuff - with polygluttonous, you can add support for whatever devices you want to buy - then the hue bulb and the chinese knockoff can both be supported 

matter might or might not make it - it has some big dawgs behind it and none of them will close if matter fails - lutron might not like it if i can use their blinds and someone else's dimmer - but if matter succeeds, they will probably have to embrace it - they know that - better to be open selling matter compliant blinds than losing everything in a closed system

You should try hanging out with a few dealers to actually see what they go through and why they do what they do. You'd be surprised how many aren't looking to get customers to add stuff simply to run up the cost. Making a couple hundred bucks extra isn't worth the hit to our reputation since word of mouth can make or break us. The thousands we can make from a referral is worth much more than the few hundred we make from adding extra. 

It's better for us to make more money with value added services than needing to add more of something just to make something work. So no, that's not why we like RF. 

Dealers don't care about the underlying technology for the most part. They sell what works and makes them money. RF is where it's at since it's cheaper than hardwired systems overall. The good ones plan ahead for what they need and a few extra just in case vs "simply guessing". This is why customers will usually get more devices than they think they need. Things don't always work according to plan but for the most part, we approach things in a methodical manner to ensure customer satisfaction and lessen the chance of something going wrong. 

Wifi (as we know it not ZigBee) isn't it for dealers because of potential issues it could have, price, flexibility, capabilities, etc....as well as the additional work taking to set it up and manage long term. 

For dealers in general, Matter doesn't matter since Matter customers aren't their market. There could be some benefits but in the grand scheme of things, you cant beat the stability that a single source solution brings to an integrated home. This is why you see dealers using Lutron, C4, Crestron, etc. Unless a dealer is focused on the low end consumer market (I was there once) and using diy stuff, Matter will play a small part in their installations. 

Take my business. I do new construction only and my clientele tends to have more money than time- they'd never diy their home regardless of how easy it is to do. Especially since it's new construction. They want to move in and things are ready. Not spending hours reading, buying, installing, and figuring out how to make it work. 

High end luxury level companies such as Lutron aren't as concerned with Matter either. That's like saying Rolls Royce is concerned about what Honda is doing with their cars. They cater to a certain type of people. I can see them adding their entry level stuff such as Caseta and Serena shades. The shades that's compatible with the caseta pro hub may also be included. Ra2/3 potentially but I'm hard pressed to see homeworks, ketra, nor their Palladium line of shades added. 

@upstatemikeposted a great video on another thread talking about matter which covers everything I feel about it so i won't go into detail on why i think it's irrelevant from the start. As you said, Lutron probably won't like it if someone else's dimmer works with their stuff....so why does anyone have to play nice with someone else?! Overall, i don't forsee much changing from the current way things currently are except that voice assistants will be integrated together to a certain degree. What i mean by that is you can now turn your lights on using Alexa and then check the status from homekit when you leave and it be correct.

Edited April 30, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[RPerrault]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Wifi (as we know it not ZigBee) isn't it for dealers because of potential issues it could have, price, flexibility, capabilities, etc....as well as the additional work taking to set it up and manage long term. 

what potential problems?

what are the prices?

what flexibility constraints do matter devices have?

what capabilities do they lack?

how much time does it take to set up?

what are the additional management needed?

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, RPerrault said:

what potential problems?

what are the prices?

what flexibility constraints do matter devices have?

what capabilities do they lack?

how much time does it take to set up?

what are the additional management needed?

 

There are too many posts on here discussing the potential issues with wifi devices including the Internet. I'm not rehashing. Just because you may feel internet is perfect, there are still a number of variables that come into play. It's one thing if you want to take that chance on your own home. Would you trust doing someone else's home with all wifi based devices knowing you're responsible for servicing as well?

However, here's a big one- a person replaces their router. What happens to the system? As an installer who's charging thousands of dollars to do someone's home, are you going to trust that they don't decide to upgrade their network.....ever? 

Cost- They're cheap. I'm working on 5 houses in various stages. The lowest value is 2.3 million. People do Google what you're using. How serious do you think any of those customers will take me if i showed up with a 15-20 dollar smart switch? Real or perceived, people associate the cost of something with quality. As an installer, why would I want to install a $20 dollar switch? I can only markup so much on product and labor. Not much ROI at the end of the day to cover costs to make it worthwhile. I'm (and other dealers) trying to make money not do volunteer work. It's a business after all.

Where did I say anything about flexibility with matter? Matter isn't even out yet for anyone to speak on how flexible it is. For all we know, it may end up being a badge on a box that says a product works with all the smart speakers without drastically changing anything that's capable of being done now.

  I clearly stated wifi devices in general. When I say flexibility, I'm talking about a devices ability to talk directly to other devices. What can you do with the devices within a given ecosystem. When you look at C4, Savant, Crestron, and Lutron, the ability of devices to talk to one another is much greater than those of wifi based devices. The internet is full of posts with people complaining about lack of flexibility if you want to see for yourself what can be done. Sure, some wifi devices are better than others in regards to grouping/scenes but when you compare the amount of work it takes to make it happen vs a standard dealer install- why would they go through all of that?

Management- Every system needs managing. Something is bound to screw up or go wrong whether it's by the customer or a freak accident. If a customer buys a new router, how does that impact the system? Does that mean an all day/multi- day service call setting stuff back up? Obviously the customer pays for that if it's on them but what if it isn't? How excited do you think they'll be having to pay twice for the same work? At least with a pro system, one can be in and out in a case like that should something happen. There are other issues that come into play that an installer has to consider as well that a home owner doesn't (but should). 

Not being smart because It's great that you read a lot (more need to) 0but experience from doing something for years in hundreds of homes will trump all of that. The same applies with school and training. What they teach you in class is completely different than what you get once you're in the real world. 

There's a place for consumer diy setups (and yes even dealers will use them strategically), but in others, dealers will avoid them. Sometimes perception trumps reality or it may be a combination of other factors that will keep a dealer from doing something. 

 

[RPerrault]

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

There are too many posts on here discussing the potential issues with wifi devices including the Internet. I'm not rehashing.

because you can't

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Just because you may feel internet is perfect, there are still a number of variables that come into play.

never said it was - florid language does not make you sound like you do know

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

It's one thing if you want to take that chance on your own home.

what chance 

 

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

However, here's a big one- a person replaces their router. What happens to the system? As an installer who's charging thousands of dollars to do someone's home, are you going to trust that they don't decide to upgrade their network.....ever? 

oh no - the big one

a router is not wifi - it might have wifi capability added 

let me help you make your point since you can't - you mean the ssid - you think every device would have to be set up again - here again, you are wrong

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Cost- They're cheap.

show us a matter device that is cheap

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm working on 5 houses in various stages. The lowest value is 2.3 million. People do Google what you're using. How serious do you think any of those customers will take me if i showed up with a 15-20 dollar smart switch? Real or perceived, people associate the cost of something with quality. As an installer, why would I want to install a $20 dollar switch? I can only markup so much on product and labor. Not much ROI at the end of the day to cover costs to make it worthwhile. I'm (and other dealers) trying to make money not do volunteer work. It's a business after all.

flat out don't believe you - flat out don't believe you are capable - flat out doubt an architect would contract you

showing up with your router at a 2.5 million dollar home...

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Where did I say anything about flexibility with matter?

here

22 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Wifi (as we know it not ZigBee) isn't it for dealers because of potential issues it could have, price, flexibility, capabilities, etc....as well as the additional work taking to set it up and manage long term. 

 

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Matter isn't even out yet for anyone to speak on how flexible it is.

exactly 

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I clearly stated wifi devices in general.

the discussion was on matter - is wifi part of the standard?

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

What can you do with the devices within a given ecosystem.

sounds like you already know what the devices will do - the rest of us are waiting for one to be released - ecosystem - right

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

When you look at C4, Savant, Crestron, and Lutron, the ability of devices to talk to one another is much greater than those of wifi based devices. The internet is full of posts with people complaining about lack of flexibility if you want to see for yourself what can be done. Sure, some wifi devices are better than others in regards to grouping/scenes but when you compare the amount of work it takes to make it happen vs a standard dealer install- why would they go through all of that?

for someone that won't 'rehash' - you sure put a lotta energy into it

since no wifi device exists (that you know of) worthy of your sophisticated 2.5 million dollar ecosystem, matter devices will suck

19 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

At least with a pro system, one can

one can...eyeroll

20 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Not being smart because It's great that you read a lot (more need to) 0but experience from doing something for years in hundreds of homes will trump all of that. The same applies with school and training. What they teach you in class is completely different than what you get once you're in the real world. 

well i did learn about what a router is - and ssid is - other than that...

sounds like you read too - on the forums you live on - and only forums

'em galdurn yungens wit dair fancy readin an new fangled teknogigee'

 

[hart2hart]

What most people call a router is 3 devices combined.

Router
Switch
Access point

My setup at home has:

Router that includes 4 switched ports.
36 port unmanaged switch
8 port power over Ethernet switch
Multiple wifi access points

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, RPerrault said:

because you can't

never said it was - florid language does not make you sound like you do know

what chance 

 

oh no - the big one

a router is not wifi - it might have wifi capability added 

let me help you make your point since you can't - you mean the ssid - you think every device would have to be set up again - here again, you are wrong

show us a matter device that is cheap

flat out don't believe you - flat out don't believe you are capable - flat out doubt an architect would contract you

showing up with your router at a 2.5 million dollar home...

here

 

exactly 

the discussion was on matter - is wifi part of the standard?

sounds like you already know what the devices will do - the rest of us are waiting for one to be released - ecosystem - right

for someone that won't 'rehash' - you sure put a lotta energy into it

since no wifi device exists (that you know of) worthy of your sophisticated 2.5 million dollar ecosystem, matter devices will suck

one can...eyeroll

well i did learn about what a router is - and ssid is - other than that...

sounds like you read too - on the forums you live on - and only forums

'em galdurn yungens wit dair fancy readin an new fangled teknogigee'

 

You obviously don't read like you claim or you don't read for comprehension. I've already stated Matter isn't out so no one can show any type of matter device. Can't have something for something that doesn't exist. 

Never did I say i show up at a home with a router nor did I say anything about a 2.5 million dollar ecosystem. LEARN TO READ. I said the cheapest house I'm working on is worth 2.3 million. 

You must not know about building houses since an architect isn't the one contracting you. The GC/homebuilder yes but not the architect. 

If you're installing a wifi wallswitch in a home, what DEVICE are you connecting it to? Last i checked, an ssid doesnt appear out of thin air. Trying to sound more intelligent than you are only comes across as disingenuous only because you're trying to nitpick socially acceptable terms for devices that handle specific tasks. 

And no, no wifi wallswitch exists that any dealer worth anything would install in another person's home on a large scale. Even for the promising ones, ROI makes current offerings worthless in regards to making money. For consumers, yes. For business purposes no. 

Once again, Matter doesn't exist so Its a moot point (guess you didn't read that). Only time will tell how good it is. Since it doesn't exist yet, matter is worthless. Time will tell. From what I've seen so far, it'll follow the route of homekit. Big promises but much ado about nothing. 

You can keep reading whatever you claim to be reading and waiting on a system to finally come out and read some more about that. I'm done

[upstatemike]

2 hours ago, hart2hart said:

What most people call a router is 3 devices combined.

Router
Switch
Access point

My setup at home has:

Router that includes 4 switched ports.
36 port unmanaged switch
8 port power over Ethernet switch
Multiple wifi access points

Now that I think about it, I have never owned a Wi-Fi router. My first Wi-Fi setup used access points connected to my already existing router and switches.

Currently I have:

1 dual WAN router with a hot spare (all config changes get copied to the spare on a regular basis)

1 24-port managed switch at the core of my system with a 24-port unmanged hot spare

4 8-port POE switches with unused ports on each so I can move things around if one of them fails

5 8-port unmanaged switches in enterainment rooms and the automation rack (I have lots of spare small switches)

10 Wireless Access Points

Typical load is 63 wireless clients plus 66 wired clients (including the APs)

I have 187 DHCP reservations. 

Except for a few Lifx bulbs I generally do not use Wi-Fi based lighting products.

Edited May 1, 2022 by upstatemike

[RPerrault]

10 access points?  about how many square feet?

 

[Geddy]

Well... @lilyoyo1 and @RPerrault let's keep this on topic. If you'd like to further debate go start your own thread. I'm just asking for router suggestions. Thanks!

@hart2hart - that's one way to consider the option. Just felt like current setup of single device worked okay for us, but certainly looking for other options. Indeed I'm using "router" as the multi system device. I'm good with having the "all-in-one" device for this instance. 

I just don't need high-end professional hardware type. Sure, TP-Link has some bad apples, but I've had bad apples in other brands as well. So if you've had Netgear and it works great for you for a long time that's great. I've blown through some crap Netgear routers (mostly due to firmware glitches) with personal ownership or friends & family ownership that I've seen cause problems. Of course I'd say nothing is as bad as some really bad D-Link apples from the late 90s. 

@Bumbershoot - Your suggestion of the eero 6E items is interesting, but even the 2 pack option at $400+ seems overkill. Certainly for a setting that doesn't do anything "automation" related. So I don't need all the extra baked into the system for those to cause potential problems down the road.

So far I'd say that Dream Router might be the best fit, but it's not in stock and not sure I can wait for it to get in stock. 

 

[lilyoyo1]

4 minutes ago, Geddy said:

Well... @lilyoyo1 and @RPerrault let's keep this on topic. If you'd like to further debate go start your own thread. I'm just asking for router suggestions. Thanks!

@hart2hart - that's one way to consider the option. Just felt like current setup of single device worked okay for us, but certainly looking for other options. Indeed I'm using "router" as the multi system device. I'm good with having the "all-in-one" device for this instance. 

I just don't need high-end professional hardware type. Sure, TP-Link has some bad apples, but I've had bad apples in other brands as well. So if you've had Netgear and it works great for you for a long time that's great. I've blown through some crap Netgear routers (mostly due to firmware glitches) with personal ownership or friends & family ownership that I've seen cause problems. Of course I'd say nothing is as bad as some really bad D-Link apples from the late 90s. 

@Bumbershoot - Your suggestion of the eero 6E items is interesting, but even the 2 pack option at $400+ seems overkill. Certainly for a setting that doesn't do anything "automation" related. So I don't need all the extra baked into the system for those to cause potential problems down the road.

So far I'd say that Dream Router might be the best fit, but it's not in stock and not sure I can wait for it to get in stock. 

 

Their stuff doesn't stay out of stock that long. If you buy your router from Amazon, you could always return it if it comes back in stock in time