Polisy NEEDS a pretty selfhosted web interface.

[kpurintun]

I have been struggling hard to hit the buy button for at least 10 years on this.  I finally got the new Polisy and I am immediately reminded why I dragged my feet.  There are now so many powerful web tools and lots of cross platform technologies.  Piles of delicious web UI features.  Using a 12 year old java applet is not amazing in 2022.

I plan to use Home Assistant as my main interface for 'using it' and logic.  really just needed a really good interface for programming Insteon. so I guess I really don't need this UI. The current HA integration does not have all the good features. 

I just feel that a good user experience and a nice UI will keep this product alive and updated.  This will also attract more customers and more developers.  I think its a win-win-win-win for everyone.

[Michel Kohanim]

@kpurintun,

Why not use UD Mobile?

With kind regards,
Michel

[kpurintun]

On 5/13/2022 at 12:21 PM, Michel Kohanim said:

@kpurintun,

Why not use UD Mobile?

With kind regards,
Michel

Yeah...  its just not pretty..  people like my wife care about usability over function.

Well '+1' for fresh new web based interface for ISY.  I would totally pay for (within reason) an upgraded software package that was a fresh and pretty locally hosted website for use and configurations.

[carealtor]

There is absolutely no reason why UD needs to reinvent this wheel.  It already exists.  ISY is easily integrated with Home Assistant and HA provides all the pretty user interface one's heart could ever desire.  And it's FREE!.

Edited May 14, 2022 by carealtor
spelling

[oskrypuch]

Java is a very common language to use to write development environments, and a whole lot else. There is nothing in particular wrong with Java, although it is being supplanted now by newer environments. And if you really want, you can have dancing zebras and leaping unicorns in a java window. ?

But, you need to separate an IDE from a high level "pretty" client, that isn't for development. Two different venues.

HA would give you more the latter, but you'd want an IDE to actually write the underlying code, if there is any complexity to it at all.

* Orest

Edited May 14, 2022 by oskrypuch

[Michel Kohanim]

10 hours ago, kpurintun said:

On 5/13/2022 at 9:21 AM, Michel Kohanim said:

@kpurintun,

Why not use UD Mobile?

With kind regards,
Michel

Yeah...  its just not pretty..  people like my wife care about usability over function.

UD Mobile is not pretty? I thought the issue was Java. Now it's also UD Mobile (native Android and iOS app)? If so, what exactly is pretty? 

With kind regards,

Michel

[larryllix]

Working the car engine and brakes is not pretty either. You can get all greasy and dirt under your fingernails.

If the parts were smoother and nicely coloured with pop out animations I might change my oil every few hours.

My wife bought me some pink tools but I still don't like dirt under my fingernails.

As far as Java goes, it doesn't have cool name all my millennial friends like.

[lilyoyo1]

On 5/13/2022 at 12:15 PM, kpurintun said:

I have been struggling hard to hit the buy button for at least 10 years on this.  I finally got the new Polisy and I am immediately reminded why I dragged my feet.  There are now so many powerful web tools and lots of cross platform technologies.  Piles of delicious web UI features.  Using a 12 year old java applet is not amazing in 2022.

I plan to use Home Assistant as my main interface for 'using it' and logic.  really just needed a really good interface for programming Insteon. so I guess I really don't need this UI. The current HA integration does not have all the good features. 

I just feel that a good user experience and a nice UI will keep this product alive and updated.  This will also attract more customers and more developers.  I think its a win-win-win-win for everyone.

The admin console is used to configure and program the system. It's not there for control of devices (though you can do so). If you program your system to be automated, you'd never need to see the admin console unless you want to make additions or changes.

In regards to an app, looks are subjective. I'm not a fan of the UDI design myself but i also don't use apps but can see it's usefulness as a tool. While HA has a prettier design, it's still ugly to me as well. I wouldn't want to use that either. Whatever  use for a visual interface that i may have needed is further lessened by voice control. Why go through pulling out a phone, finding the app, opening, etc. When I can just tell Google to turn something on or off! 

If you like HA offerings just stick with that. There's no love lost for you not liking something. That's why there's competition. If you don't like 1 thing, you're free to pursue what you do like

 

 

[MrBill]

While UD mobile can currently be used for some aspects of day to day usage, it still isn't a replacement for the admin console.  Can't view, edit, add, execute program.  Can't view, edit, add network resource, can't add variables.

I'm also not interested in programming my ISY on my phone, that's what my laptop is for-- full keyboard, larger screen etc.... as for using bluestacks under windows.. how is this better/different than Java?  Still dependent on some arcane 3rd party add-on.

[asbril]

9 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

UD Mobile is not pretty? I thought the issue was Java. Now it's also UD Mobile (native Android and iOS app)? If so, what exactly is pretty? 

With kind regards,

Michel

I think the world of UD Mobile and use it all day long, on my Iphone as well as on my computers through Bluestack. The Bluestack solution is not perfect, but it works.

UD Mobile beats Mobilinc (with lots of respect for Wes doing a great job all these years) by far and it is free. In fact I wonder why it is free. Javi has spent hours-days-weeks-months on developing UD Mobile and I think that UD should be compensated for it. If my idea of a LA reunion ever comes to reality then I will take Javi for a good meal !

 

[Javi]

Thanks @asbril!

We are working on add/edit/view for programs/network-resources/variables. Program/Variable/Network-Resource execution is currently available for both platforms.  In the last few months we have added Alexa add/edit for both platforms, Insteon/Zwave add/edit both platforms, and PG3 add/edit on Android (coming to iOS in the future).  We will also be working on customized screens for larger displays.

When thinking about AC replacement we must consider current trends in personal computing.  Windows 11 and the entire new lineup of Apple products support mobile apps, bluestacks should only be used for older windows systems.  Looking at statistical personal computing usage, mobile usage has now surpassed PC usage in many areas.  From personal observations of younger acquaintances/family more than half do not own a PC.  So, if trends continue, we should be looking less at desktop applications and more at mobile first applications.   While considering mobile first we must also consider privacy/cpu-usage/storage permissions which are becoming increasingly restrictive for web browsers from mobile devices. These restrictions make native iOS/Android application more appealing as we can request permissions, manage permissions, and have much more control over data persistence.  This allows our native apps to be faster than a mobile web browser, especially in cases of low network connectivity or frequent disconnects.

I understand the UI/UX is subjective and we will not please everyone. We assist other developers with bugs/questions, including Home Assistant Devs, so our users have more options.  We have an android websocket template app to assist any Android devs with basic setup if they choose to make their own interface.  We have not had requests for iOS templates, but are open to creating a basic template upon request. The issue with iOS templates is they still require an Apple Developer subscription to run on  a real device.

[smacbride]

One of the reasons I went with HA over using UD mobile is that I just wanted a simple buttton to turn a state variable on and off (just like a switch).  I could never figure out a way to do it using UD mobile.  Since then I've been able to integrate other disparate technologies into my HA setup so I'm happy with it for that.  

Every couple of months I re-visit UD mobile to see how the progress is doing and I think it's moving in the right direction, but it still falls behind what you can do with HA for dashboarding.

[asbril]

1 hour ago, Javi said:

Windows 11 and the entire new lineup of Apple products support mobile apps

How do I add UD Mobile to my W11 computers, other than using Bluestack ?

[asbril]

2 hours ago, Javi said:

From personal observations of younger acquaintances/family more than half do not own a PC.

Some of us are of the older generation. While I  actively use my Iphone,  I like the larger screen and the old fashioned keyboard of my computers. I have a computer in my bedroom, in my home office and in my exercise room ?.

Edited May 15, 2022 by asbril

[Javi]

2 hours ago, smacbride said:

One of the reasons I went with HA over using UD mobile is that I just wanted a simple buttton to turn a state variable on and off (just like a switch).  I could never figure out a way to do it using UD mobile.  Since then I've been able to integrate other disparate technologies into my HA setup so I'm happy with it for that.  

Every couple of months I re-visit UD mobile to see how the progress is doing and I think it's moving in the right direction, but it still falls behind what you can do with HA for dashboarding.

Thanks.  Regarding variables, this is possible in UD Mobile in a few configurations using commands and display node. Press Commands and the Display node can be separate node-entities (nodes/variables/programs/network-resources).

Options include:

1) Variable can be the display status which can be mapped to on/off/% suffix/names and icons/colors. A program can be the Command when pressed (i.e. if pressed when var is 0 change var to 100 else change var to 0).  

2) Similar to #1 but using UD Mobiles native program toggle as trigger and status.

52 minutes ago, asbril said:

How do I add UD Mobile to my W11 computers, other than using Bluestack ?

I must amend my previous statement, to include that your system must meet the minimum requirements. However from most of the information I have read the Amazon App Store will already be installed on most newer PC out of the box.  I believe most users who can afford Polisy are likely not purchasing low end PCs. 

If I understand  the information correctly, Microsoft is having difficulty luring developers to windows, so they are pushing to use something that already exists.  This makes since in my observations of the public school system in my area. Most are using Chromebooks so many of the students have little experience with Windows, this after a pandemic that forced many of them to use laptops for the first time in their lives.

The following link should give most of the information needed for adding the Amazon App Store if not already installed.

https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-run-android-apps-in-windows-11

40 minutes ago, asbril said:

Some of us are of the older generation. While I  actively use my Iphone,  I like the larger screen and the old fashioned keyboard of my computers. I have a computer in my bedroom, in my home office and in my exercse room.

Understood, we have features for larger screens on our list. For example side by side node-list and node-dashboard.

[apostolakisl]

UD mobile is a good USER interface and getting better.  It was sorely needed in that regard and very much appreciated.  But by no means is it a programming interface.  Please, I beg of you, do not ever consider a phone app to be the method by which you would configure/program/trouble shoot the system.  You need a big screen and a real keyboard.  The JAVA thing is very buggy.  It drops its connection for seemingly no reason, it is slow to load, and it has a lot of requirements to do "saves" where most interfaces would have saved it when you made the change.  It is really bad when you delete something since there is no notification of a save being necessary.  Then there are the regular updates it requires and all the cache clearing at whatnot.  I have gotten used to it, but have never liked it.  People new to ISY I am sure really don't like it.

@Javi @Michel Kohanim

[lilyoyo1]

3 hours ago, Javi said:

 

When thinking about AC replacement we must consider current trends in personal computing.  Windows 11 and the entire new lineup of Apple products support mobile apps, bluestacks should only be used for older windows systems.  Looking at statistical personal computing usage, mobile usage has now surpassed PC usage in many areas.  From personal observations of younger acquaintances/family more than half do not own a PC.  So, if trends continue, we should be looking less at desktop applications and more at mobile first applications.   While considering mobile first we must also consider privacy/cpu-usage/storage permissions which are becoming increasingly restrictive for web browsers from mobile devices. These restrictions make native iOS/Android application more appealing as we can request permissions, manage permissions, and have much more control over data persistence.  This allows our native apps to be faster than a mobile web browser, especially in cases of low network connectivity or frequent disconnects.

 

This doesn't sound promising....

Hopefully the admin console stays at some level since many folks do use it. I understand preparing for the future but if the past is forgotten, much more could be lost. Young folks are fickle people. It's the older crowd that's loyal and set in their ways. One jumps on every shiny new toy while the other spends more and are less likely to jump ship

As I sit here and type this on my phone, I think about how much easier it is to do this while I'm working on my laptop and typing on it at the same time. 

It's telling that the big 4 all use apps for making changes but full programming is done on a computer. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[asbril]

1 hour ago, Javi said:

the Amazon App Store will already be installed on most newer PC out of the box. 

The good news is that I was able to add the Amazon App Store to my W11 computer. The bad news is that I can not find the UD Mobile app in the AAS.

[Javi]

I understand the worries, but I think there is a misunderstanding as to what this will look like.  Saving/deleting/refreshing must be better in mobile development because of constraints in connectivity, screen size, and limited memory/storage/bandwidth resources.  I can not allow a user to change multiple programs before saving, so saves must be a micro as possible.  Adding 2 UD Mobile screens to a single view for larger screens will look similar to the current AC, with one side having a list of devices/programs/variables/network resources and the other side containing the commands/trigger/conditions.   This will also allow keyboards on devices with keyboards.

1 minute ago, asbril said:

The good news is that I was able to add the Amazon App Store to my W11 computer. The bad news is that I can not find the UD Mobile app in the AAS.

I'll take a look sometime next week,  it's possible I forgot to check a box somewhere.?

[kpurintun]

17 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

UD Mobile is not pretty? I thought the issue was Java. Now it's also UD Mobile (native Android and iOS app)? If so, what exactly is pretty? 

With kind regards,

Michel

Well..  I just spent two and a half hours reconfiguring my entire insteon setup and its just about perfect.  its never been perfect.  its always had some wackiness, and it would take several weekends to get 'passable'.  I'll leave you alone about the UI.  It worked a treat to get this all working quickly and easily.  I bet it would have been 20 minutes had the insteon protocol been faster.

Thanks for putting the time to get Insteon so perfect.

I don't think I'll ever like java applets, but this one worked quite well, was very stable, and did its job.

[MrBill]

20 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

As I sit here and type this on my phone

they don't use keyboards, my son walks around dictating all his stuff into his phone, he doesn't type.  Now instead of knowing how to read typo I have to know how to read what siri had no clue what he was talking about.  reading typo was easier....

[apostolakisl]

One of my gripes is how slow it is to do your programming using the current AC.  Way to much reliance on mouse clicks.  It would be so much nicer if you could do everything with the keyboard in an efficient manor.  Using the keyboard at present is sort of possible, but even worse than using the mouse.

[oskrypuch]

Well, it would be nice to see a free form editor like in a conventional IDE, but that is probably a tall ask.

* Orest

 

[MrBill]

50 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

One of my gripes is how slow it is to do your programming using the current AC.  Way to much reliance on mouse clicks.  It would be so much nicer if you could do everything with the keyboard in an efficient manor.  Using the keyboard at present is sort of possible, but even worse than using the mouse.

I agree!

[Javi]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:26 PM, asbril said:

The good news is that I was able to add the Amazon App Store to my W11 computer. The bad news is that I can not find the UD Mobile app in the AAS.

Hi @asbril,

Unfortunately I made an assumption on availability as I do not own a W11 computer.   Microsoft/Amazon have not yet opened the full app store and are still testing a small number of apps. Amazon/Microsoft promoted 2022 to developers, so hopefully it will be in the coming months.