Dub Posted June 28, 2022 Posted June 28, 2022 2 hours ago, smokegrub said: I am "holding my breath" that the new owners of the Insteon product line will be successful and that they will work proactively with UDI to get even better. Totally agree with you! Im in a similar situation, but with a single home with Insteon. My failure rate is low as well, but I read early on about putting in a whole home surge protector. 1
RPerrault Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 11 hours ago, smokegrub said: I am, at best, on the margin of this thread which has devolved into a discussion of what appears to be primarily installer-related concerns regarding the future of technology. more of a developer discussion - installers use the technology and implement it for customers - they don't necessarily have to understand that the communication method and application (commands) are not the same thing - insteon combined both into the name insteon - matter will not - it will use existing, open communication methods to deliver the traffic to the device 11 hours ago, smokegrub said: That's great, but please permit me to share my interests and concerns as they relate to my use of Insteon technology. 0f course - discussion is welcome - we are learning from each other 11 hours ago, smokegrub said: I may be in the minority, but I want the Insteon product line and technology to succeed and to be supported by UDI. In fact, I would like to see some new Insteon products such as dependable door locks. no one is wishing failure on the new owners - at least MY anger is directed toward farthome/fartlabs - for the reasons posted all over - glad your experience was better with insteon, you have to hope for those door locks - IF insteon wants to make them - with an open standard, any number of companies can make them - competition - and hopefully - a better looking lockset (snicker - actually - baldwin brass had a zwave product at one time) insteon is interested in locking customers into insteon - has you waiting for a door lock - might have been a good or bad market strategy - i don't know - zwave allowed ge to make a zwave dimmer - and others (zwave gets a fee) - and schlage - different strategy from insteon insteon took forever to make a working hub - ud made an excellent one - but you think insteon was first to integrate to alexa? ud blazed that trail and closely integrated before others - the 'tell insteon to...' is a no go for me - i need the lights to respond to 'turn the kitchen lights off' ud saw the writing on the wall - and a business opportunity - a market need to allow me to use insteon AND have those door locks - ud added z-wave support AND presented the zwave devices to me in a common interface - just a list of resources that - though unrelated in technology - allow me to relate to each other and act upon - i could (if i had one of those ugly things) have an insteon keypad button unlock a zwave lock - while others are hoping insteon makes a lock - and accepting whatever they decide to make ud expanded to elk security, allowing elk and insteon devices control each other - michel is a brainiac and business savant - he saw that matter or no matter, he did not wait - he did the work for ud customers - doing what insteon would not do - make different technologies work together and give me options - and do it in a common interface - i do not have to know that the insteon command for dim is 14 - or that zwave is 63b2 - i just tell the device to dim - ud does the real work - that is huge - ud pioneered interfacing resources like a zwave blind motor with alexa - even if the manufacturer does not michel saw us wanting to turn the thermostat up from an insteon keypad - i have ecobee while another has nest - multiply that by tons of ha equipment - so he created hardware and announced to all the developer nerds 'you build a 'node' and sell it - polisy will run it' - i don't want nest - i do want ecobee - i choose what i want - he introduced choice and modularity but isy and polisy are dependent on insteon in that it takes a insteon plm to communicate insteon - with zwave, more than one manufacturer makes a rf transmitter - matter chose to adopt existing communications methods i wish them well also - however - if they fail, you have thousands invested in a technology with no door locks or replacement dimmer - i am done basing all this money on hope - no one cares of ge goes belly up - lots of others make zwave dimmers - insteon chose a different path and i was suckered into it insteon has lots of advantages - their unwillingness to open insteon to others - in hindsight for its customers - was a bad idea (not saying it was a bad business decision - it was bad for its customers) 1
Dub Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 7 minutes ago, RPerrault said: but isy and polisy are dependent on insteon in that it takes a insteon plm to communicate insteon - with zwave, more than one manufacturer makes a rf transmitter - matter chose to adopt existing communications methods So many good points in your post, but this is a key take away for me. It will be interesting to see what products Insteon brings back and how open they are with 3rd parties like UD. The territorial stuff happens with companies, but after being a Polisy user for about 6-8 weeks, I wish I would have done it sooner. I think the simpler interface like a single purpose app and hub appeal to the market that wants the easy factor. Using Polisy seems more to the Prosumer clients that want more from their system. My opinion is there is more risk to alienate 3rd parties vs working with them. It will be interesting to see what happens as I'm totally speculating but hoping for the best. Keeping an open mind, but Polisy will help me be future proof while continuing to use my existing Insteon devices. 1
RPerrault Posted June 29, 2022 Posted June 29, 2022 9 hours ago, WHaas said: So many good points in your post, but this is a key take away for me. It will be interesting to see what products Insteon brings back and how open they are with 3rd parties like UD. The territorial stuff happens with companies, but after being a Polisy user for about 6-8 weeks, I wish I would have done it sooner. I think the simpler interface like a single purpose app and hub appeal to the market that wants the easy factor. Using Polisy seems more to the Prosumer clients that want more from their system. My opinion is there is more risk to alienate 3rd parties vs working with them. It will be interesting to see what happens as I'm totally speculating but hoping for the best. Keeping an open mind, but Polisy will help me be future proof while continuing to use my existing Insteon devices. the good news is that you are in a position to migrate to another technology slowly should insteon fail 2
captainc Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 On 6/27/2022 at 7:36 PM, lilyoyo1 said: Not really. The nokia line was ready for release It was a half baked some project manager pitched to a divisional VP at nokia how they could dominate a market share using their name with no capital outlay or product engineering and the vendor takes the risk. seen it before and happens more than people think.
lilyoyo1 Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 40 minutes ago, captainc said: It was a half baked some project manager pitched to a divisional VP at nokia how they could dominate a market share using their name with no capital outlay or product engineering and the vendor takes the risk. seen it before and happens more than people think. It wasn't half baked. The product works really well with it's hub/app (until servers went down) and still continue to do so locally. Much better from a quality and functional standpoint from the insteon line
LFMc Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 4 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said: It wasn't half baked. The product works really well with it's hub/app (until servers went down) and still continue to do so locally. Much better from a quality and functional standpoint from the insteon line Wow, I didn't know that any "Nokia" branded products were ever shipped. Did I misunderstand your post or did you actually get some of their Nokia products? Thanks,
upstatemike Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 I wonder if all the prototype items were shipped or if there is still a stash of them someplace?
Michel Kohanim Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 24 minutes ago, upstatemike said: I wonder if all the prototype items were shipped or if there is still a stash of them someplace? In storage. But it would be impossible to sell them without another contract with Nokia (we did have a call with them). With kind regards, Michel 4
lilyoyo1 Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said: In storage. But it would be impossible to sell them without another contract with Nokia (we did have a call with them). With kind regards, Michel Past tense or potential option? Was it part of the insteon sale? Edited June 30, 2022 by lilyoyo1
Michel Kohanim Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 23 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said: Past tense or potential option? Was it part of the insteon sale? Past tense for us. I am not sure about INSTEON tech. It was part of the sale in such a way that the buyer is responsible to pay all the past dues/storage fees/etc. to the storage company and/or somehow come to an agreement. With kind regards, Michel 3
Techman Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 @Michel Kohanim Any updates from Insteon on the PLM? Will they license the technology to you?
larryllix Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 @Michel Kohanim Any updates from Insteon on the PLM? Will they license the technology to you?Would be good test of the intent of the new owners.Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
Michel Kohanim Posted July 1, 2022 Posted July 1, 2022 @Techman, Still waiting to hear back. No news ... With kind regards, Michel 2 1
Dracarys Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 New house - found a 3yr old nib plm and used hub in a box...what to do? I previously had an ISY 994i ZR based system with >60 Insteon switches/outlets/lamp plugs/outdoors/etc. I was deep into multiple integrations with scenes, network, programs, mobilinc and even variables supporting pushover, hue, milight, and Alexa. The system stayed when we sold that house last year. Then Insteon folded, was purchased, and from what I've gathered due to lack of public information comes with an unknown strategy for both the near term and long term. Devices might become available again soon? Which ones? Ecosystem compatibility? Etc... We're moving into a "new to us" house this month. I loved the local instant response of my ISY Insteon system. While packing I found a box that contains three switches, a keypadlinc, nib plm (my backup), v2 hub w/Alexa, and a couple of lamplincs. I assumed that I would need to build my next system based on something like Smartthings/Hubitat or Home Assistant with Caseta (or Z-Wave) because I need ~70 smart switches for the new house, plus flexible integration with the non Insteon ecosystem. I've read quite a bit, including about thread/matter. I also believe new hardware from UD might be on the horizon. Given that I can start from scratch, does it make sense to just sell the Insteon bits?
lilyoyo1 Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 3 hours ago, Dracarys said: New house - found a 3yr old nib plm and used hub in a box...what to do? I previously had an ISY 994i ZR based system with >60 Insteon switches/outlets/lamp plugs/outdoors/etc. I was deep into multiple integrations with scenes, network, programs, mobilinc and even variables supporting pushover, hue, milight, and Alexa. The system stayed when we sold that house last year. Then Insteon folded, was purchased, and from what I've gathered due to lack of public information comes with an unknown strategy for both the near term and long term. Devices might become available again soon? Which ones? Ecosystem compatibility? Etc... We're moving into a "new to us" house this month. I loved the local instant response of my ISY Insteon system. While packing I found a box that contains three switches, a keypadlinc, nib plm (my backup), v2 hub w/Alexa, and a couple of lamplincs. I assumed that I would need to build my next system based on something like Smartthings/Hubitat or Home Assistant with Caseta (or Z-Wave) because I need ~70 smart switches for the new house, plus flexible integration with the non Insteon ecosystem. I've read quite a bit, including about thread/matter. I also believe new hardware from UD might be on the horizon. Given that I can start from scratch, does it make sense to just sell the Insteon bits? That's for you to decide. If you're planning on automating immediately, then you've answered your own question. The group that purchased insteon didn't buy it only to sell a subscription to a few leftover hub users so devices will be coming back out. It's just a matter of when. If you can wait, then you can decide once they're up and running what the best path forward is for you. You can even run a hybrid system. Such as the kpl and plug in modules along with whatever technology you choose. 1
Bumbershoot Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 The Insteon Blog has some updates (as of June 30th): https://www.insteon.com/blog/2022/6/30/updates-from-ken Product Replenishing inventory - We are working with the factories, and we expect to have our first order placed tomorrow. On-hand inventory - We now have access to the existing product inventory. We had hoped to uncover a secret stash of products to start tapping into, but unfortunately, we have a very narrow list of products. We are working on the logistics to be able to take orders. Hubs - We will be offering a refurbishment program for hubs that’ve stopped working. The process will entail bringing the units to current manufacturing specifications by upgrading several internal components. There will be a charge of $24.95 for this refurbishment service – we know that you’re already paying a subscription fee, so it was important for us to offer this service at cost. Also, we are looking to re-work existing hub inventory to supply refurbished hubs for new orders. We’ll give you updates as soon as they become available. 1
LFMc Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Bumbershoot said: There will be a charge of $24.95 for this refurbishment service Maybe they'll do the same for all the dead PLMs out there. (-; 2
MrBill Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, LFMc said: Maybe they'll do the same for all the dead PLMs out there. (-; old insteon... aka smarthome.. had a free replacement program for dead Hubs. https://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/10/20/migrating-to-a-new-insteon-hub looks like in recent times it may have become 39.95 for hubs outside the 2 year warranty, but prior to recently that string wasn't attached. (my son had to have his replaced, and at that time there was no in-warranty/out-of-warranty difference, it was flat out if your hub failed will will replace it.) When the replacement was shipped it had the same ID as your original and was preloaded with your devices. 1
Dub Posted July 6, 2022 Posted July 6, 2022 4 hours ago, MrBill said: old insteon... aka smarthome.. had a free replacement program for dead Hubs. https://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/10/20/migrating-to-a-new-insteon-hub looks like in recent times it may have become 39.95 for hubs outside the 2 year warranty, but prior to recently that string wasn't attached. (my son had to have his replaced, and at that time there was no in-warranty/out-of-warranty difference, it was flat out if your hub failed will will replace it.) When the replacement was shipped it had the same ID as your original and was preloaded with your devices. I don't know when this happened with mine, but can confirm this was the same thing happened with my hub. I'm pretty sure it was out of warranty, but it was pretty painless.
Michel Kohanim Posted July 6, 2022 Posted July 6, 2022 17 hours ago, LFMc said: Maybe they'll do the same for all the dead PLMs out there. (-; That would be a great idea! A better idea would be to let us transform Nokia hubs to PLMs With kind regards, Michel 4
larryllix Posted July 6, 2022 Posted July 6, 2022 I just purchased a Door/ Window sensor from Amazon.ca. Surprised they would still have some stock yet.Was thinking somebody might trade me one for leak detectors.Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk
jec6613 Posted July 6, 2022 Posted July 6, 2022 1 hour ago, larryllix said: I just purchased a Door/ Window sensor from Amazon.ca. Surprised they would still have some stock yet. Was thinking somebody might trade me one for leak detectors. Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk You know that with a simple remote probe that the door sensor becomes a leak detector, right? ?
larryllix Posted July 7, 2022 Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, jec6613 said: You know that with a simple remote probe that the door sensor becomes a leak detector, right? ? Never heard that before. However I have about 10 LDs with no usage for them anymore and need a door detector to detect entry and exit direction, along with an MS. Edited July 7, 2022 by larryllix
jec6613 Posted July 7, 2022 Posted July 7, 2022 48 minutes ago, larryllix said: Never heard that before. However I have about 10 LDs with no usage for them anymore and need a door detector to detect entry and exit direction, along with an MS. The door sensor was originally the TriggerLinc and they advertised it more heavily - you can use it to handle any dry contact switches including a simple push button, which I've used in a few locations either with a remote reed switch itself could be subject to weather (and therefore bad to have the door sensor itself on it) or to use a pair of reed switches to detect either of a pair of doors using a single door sensor - though in this case either door closing would show the sensor closed, it's still effective in certain situations - in my case, double door reach-in closets where the light only turns on with both open, and will turn off with either closed. Unless I'm doing a direct link to a light switch though, nowadays I use the Aeotec Door Sensor 7 Pro, which is smaller and performs just as well.
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