I have recovered from this, I think, but can't be certain there still aren't some issues. I am wondering if there is something more I should do, like certain diagnostic steps, or even potentially replace the PLM.

In some 15 yrs of ops, have never seen quite this kind of failure.

The System

System is large, 100+ devices, mostly insteon, a bit of zwave (700 series dongle), polisy running "LTS" 5.4.4. Zwave was added during the time of insteon troubles. Stuck at 5.4.4 as the polisy OS won't support further upgrades, and the bit of Zwave now complicates a move (reflash/restore etc.), so been sitting on it for a bit.

The Problem

One morning I noticed that ALL of my wireless insteon devices stopped working (ISY would not see any transmits), that includes the 2842 motions, the newer 2844 motions, and the mini two & four key 2432 remotes.

But, in addition a number of the 2334 eight/six button units would also not be seen by the ISY. Curiously, scenes that toggled the state of the buttons on these, still functioned. (so ISY saw no TX, but units accepted RX)

Zwave devices not affected.

In the UI, no device showed as not responding, or any indication of offline status, except that the wireless devices' pages showed blank fields, that is no ON or OFF status, etc., and not able to QUERY or change settings.

The was no "nine blink" indication on the motion devices (indicating network connection loss), nor the "three blink" showing low battery.

What I Did

Scratched my head for while, checked the diagnostic screens, nothing obvious to me.

Then on a lark, starting with the simplest thing, I put one of the wireless devices in link mode, and did a simple RESTORE DEVICE command. I saw the usual activity dialogs, and then amazingly, the device started working normally!

I then tried this with one of the 2334 eight button panels, that restored its function as well.

I went through each of the devices (that I know faulted), and did the same. They all started working.

The Question

How did this happen? Do I need to do anything more?

Were all of the wireless devices, or matching tables in the PLM, somehow selectively memory corrupted? But, what about the eight button panels too?

Is the PLM starting to fail. Certainly I've seen random devices fall off for control when that happened in the past, but never such a logically grouped set of devices, nor could I restore function as easily. With the device restores the system seems to be back up and running. Pretty sure the PLM is newer version, with the updated capacitors.

Thoughts??

Orest

Edited yesterday at 06:25 PM1 day by oskrypuch

Congrats, you win the odd-one-of-the-week award!

Initially I was thinking rf noise, but reading through it all, it would appear that the PLM memory got partially corrupted. If, as you seem to be saying, wireless devices were still able to trigger actions in other devices (as part of scenes) but nothing was seen at the ISY, it seems that links would have somehow been lost in the PLM. If I had suspected this, I would have started with a restore of the PLM. Of course, hindsight is always easier, and I might be totally off here.

Yes, I was thinking the same, an odd one!

I am suspecting the PLM, but so odd to have such a specific grouping of devices all fail at the same time. Maybe some sort of "logic wave" that went through the system, and it affected only certain kinds of devices. A stretch I know.

I was going to try the PLM refresh, but it takes a bit of time, so thought why not -- try the simple device restore first. I would expect that restores the device's entries in the PLM tables, besides the device itself.

Maybe I should still do a PLM refresh, to catch things I haven't noticed yet.

Orest

Edited yesterday at 06:53 PM1 day by oskrypuch

Spoke too soon!

Same failure, again.

So perhaps a PLM refresh, and if that doesn't work (or maybe just do it as I have spares), a PLM replacement/refresh.

Orest

Edited yesterday at 07:36 PM1 day by oskrypuch

Oh dear, last 2413S I have (v2.5) I have it marked with tape saying "bad?".

And they don't sell serial PLMs any more.

Need to go USB modem, so that means I remove the current serial cable, and just plug the USB cable in directly?

Orest

Edited yesterday at 07:58 PM1 day by oskrypuch

A Polisy has two USB ports, so you should be able to just plug it right in. Yes, the 2413U comes with a standard USB cable.

Yes, I just checked. I knew that there was at least one, as I have the old 700 series ZWave dongle plugged in. I feared there wasn't a second.

Orest

Now to find the docs, so I get the sequence exactly right. Can't find "replace PLM" or similar, in the wiki. I know it is there somewhere ...

Anyone?

Orest

The first post in this thread details the procedure. The important thing is to power off the controller, as explained:

OK, found the original PDF as well (clipped below). I understand it is critical to have Polisy discover the new PLM, and not use the old PLM address, so the reboot.

I might just give a refresh of the PLM (without replacing it) a try as well. In that case, I start at the dashed line I added in below?

Orest

To replace a PLM:

Unplug ISY from the power outlet

Unplug the PLM from EISY/POLISY and power outlet

Connect the EISY/POLISY to the new PLM

Plug the new PLM into a power outlet

Plug ISY into a power outlet

Go to Admin Console and wait for system initialization to complete

. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

(to just refresh a current PLM, start here)

Click on the Battery icon at the top. This will prevent EISY/POLISY from trying to update programming on your RF devices which are probably in sleep mode

Click on the Restore Modem (PLM) menu option

In case EISY/POLISY cannot communicate during the process, you will have a series of nodes with green 1011 icons in the device tree. For each one of those nodes:

If an RF device, ensure that the device is in Programming mode

Right mouse click | Write pending updates ..

Edited yesterday at 08:52 PM1 day by oskrypuch

Sounds about right.

12 hours ago, oskrypuch said:

The Problem

One morning I noticed that ALL of my wireless insteon devices stopped working (ISY would not see any transmits), that includes the 2842 motions, the newer 2844 motions, and the mini two & four key 2432 remotes.

I had the same thing several days ago. Very small Insteon-only system on an ISY. My wireless devices were two open/close sensors and two leak detectors. The two open/close sensors drive two variables that trigger some main functions. No response from wireless devices in the admin panel. No variables changed or programs triggered.

I restarted the ISY. No help. Repowered the PLM and the ISY. No help.

I begrudgingly did a PLM restore. The ISY prompted a relinking of all wireless devices. I tried to relink one device, but that leak detector started responding before I could finish. The other three wireless devices started responding, too.

The system has been working fine ever since (3-4 days.) I suspected the PLM may be going bad. Now, I dunno what to think. Weird

@auger66 Well, I think you are in the "interlude", at the moment. 😉

I would suggest, if you have a recurrence, buy a new PLM and carefully do the full the replacement procedure. (as per above)

OTOH, if it doesn't recur soon, if you have an older PLM (pre v2.4 or so), just get a new PLM anyway, and have it in inventory for the future.

I have ordered a new 2413U, should be here in a couple of days, and will report back. For now my smart house, is semi-dumb!

It seems that the fault state, affects any device where the system expects to hear from it with a Tx. Obviously that includes wireless motions, remotes and water detectors, but that also includes the 6/8 button panels and similar. And the fact that a device restore (temporarily) corrected the issue, to me strongly suggests it is a hardware rather than logic/software issue.

All points to the PLM, the usual weak link.

Orest

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by oskrypuch

A new 2413U probably would be best. Even if stored for a backup.

The 2413S serial PLM used by older ISY controllers has been discontinued by Insteon so older users may need to find a new way to replace the PLM or a rebuild.

A Polisy will still accept the DB9 serial adapter, from a 2413S, that is actually what I have currently.

There was a serial/USB adapter for the Eisy as well, but not sure if it is available any more, either.

But for sure, best to get a 2413U, rather than trying to ebay out a 2413S combo.

Orest

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by oskrypuch