lilyoyo1

This i agree with. Matter is a must for them to even have a chance

The point that i was making about the screwless wall plate is how they match extremely well with the new devices vs older stuff. Its the small attention to detail which the old units lack such as exact color match and how they fit inside the wallplate themselves. Those minor details allow them to stand out even more. It's similar to lutron's devices and their Wallplates. The fit, finish, and consistency allows their devices to stand out just a little bit more. Some people are happy with things being good enough. However, as others step up and put more thought into their designs, insteon needs to do and be better- especially after their shutdown fiasco. They simply have more to prove at this point in order to win back old customers, gain new ones, and increase interest in 3 party licensing deals. They can have the best protocol in the world but that means nothing if they don't have product that people want to buy. Getting other companies on board will be harder as well. What do they have to offer that zwave, ZigBee, or wifi doesn't to make someone pay yet another licensing fee to use them? It's always been easy to license X10 but how many do so? Insteon could fall into the same boat. It's not like those same companies were knocking down the door to buy them. It's easy to say all that they have to do is XYZ. Reality is much different. They'll have to get companies to buy into them. The best way to do so is have a successful product line that people want to buy. Keeping the old line will allow them to sell a bunch of product early on as existing users snatch up spares but that does not guarantee long term success for their own sales or for others who may see them as the same old company. What is overlooked in all of this licensing talk is that Insteon will always be the sole source in dinner manner even with licensing deals since they'll be selling the chips and developing the firmware for the hardware themselves. For years, Sigma/silicon labs was the sole provider of zwave chips. It's telling that they opened up semi-conductor manufacturing to others in 2020 and yet you still see others buying from them because it's easier, quicker, and cheaper that way. No different than corporations selling franchises. It's yours but they still maintain control through various means and methods. Insteon will want to do the same. This means control over the firmware, code, or chip itself hence sole source in some manner. Because of this, before investing in product design, integration, distribution, etc. interested parties will wait to see if insteon will be viable long term. Ditto for installers. Those burned over the last year(especially with closure) will not rush to jump back on that band wagon. The message that a new line sends is much greater than the old.

Its not puzzling. If you yell at someone across a room and they hear you, does that guarantee you'll hear them? Same applies for your devices. That's why repeaters are recommended

They were finally purchased. There are a few discussions on the Smarthome channel forum

Yes.

I use a zwave motion sensor to do the same thing. Depending on room, time, and occupancy, lights will automatically turn on/off

It's possible they had a hub unit sent for FCC testing/approval but what was being released does not contain either one. The devices themselves are dualband

Nokia devices do not support wifi/Bluetooth nor are they RF only. They use the same underlying insteon dual-band technology as the old line

Who has said anything about a switch being something other than decora or toggle? Smartphones are all rectangular but yet there has been multitudes of designs over the years. Ditto with decora style switches. Go to Amazon and type in smart switch. You can see plenty of different ones there. Some are good while some are bad. They're still different designs using the same form.

No. It was supposed to be released last year but never was. The devices are dual band not RF only nor did they support Bluetooth/wifi.

Existing customers are important which is why backwards compatibility is important. Having a fresh design also reinvigorates their base. If existing customers were buying old insteon like that, they would've stayed in business. New customers obviously weren't enough. Continuing with the same stale lineup only serves to ensure the same results as previous iterations. When it comes to modern designs, the Nokia switches fits in much better with any decor. Not only that, they're ready to go as is. They can come to market with them while working to enhance them in any manner they like. In regards to the devices, they are matte along with matching screwless Wallplates. The paddle and keypads have a small led on the side vs a while row.

Yes. They had created a new line and licensed Nokia's name. They shut down before releasing it. There is no competition making insteon devices at this time. It uses the same code and can be manually added to existing switches. Should UDI get their hands on the developer documents and add them to the Isy, you could use them in native insteon scenes just like normal insteon devices

What are you talking about? Who said anything about a switch not looking like a switch (decora or toggle)? Even your comparison to Crestron! You're arguing stuff that no on has said Just like smartphones, you can still make decora switches that carry a premium look and feel. An example is lutron's sunnata dimmers/switches.The Nokia line design carries a classic look that's elegant at the same time. Ditto for Control 4 and Savant. There are many other switches out there as well with unique designs (some better than others). Read for context not argument. I didn't say they're done with you as a customer. I stated that with you having 300 devices in your home (with 200 that you barely use) the likelihood of you buying more in such a way to be sustainable (for them) is greatly diminished. They are better off focusing on new customers as well as giving new customers something to be excited over so they can upgrade.

The Nokia line included everything you stated except for matter support which can probably be added

I'm not understanding your point. Regardless of what you use, you are at the mercy of any mfg. that you buy from. No one is saying you have to rip anything out. If insteon wasn't purchased what would people have done? By keeping the same underlying technology to a point, a person can slowly upgrade over time while keeping the core system intact. If a person doesn't want to upgrade- their devices still work. With 300 devices and 200 you barely use- are you really sounding like a customer that insteon can depend on to keep them in business? From a business standpoint, you're a supportive customer but they've made what they're going to make from you with the old stuff. What benefit do they have to gain but rehashing the same stuff to keep you happy? Sure, you may replace devices over time, but that's not enough. It's the new customers with nothing that matter more to future growth At what point did I say insteon (or anyone) would create a weird looking switch? You can still create fresh new look without changing the form factor of something. Look at phones. They're still a rectangular slab. By changing a few design elements, they've kept them modern and with the times. Most of the stuff out there (including Nokia) are still decora style switches. Those buying 5 or 10 switches to "try out" would still have different switches until fully swapped so it doesnt matter.

If RF is waiting for a clear zero crossing, then the signal would not be sent to another device causing delays. This is why you see people with responders still not communicating with a controlling device properly even when in RF range

It amazes me that so many folks on here complained about insteon and lack of changes but yet, all want things to stay the same as they used to be. If insteons look was that fresh, they never would've struggled (even before COVID). People would've been snapping them up and business would've boomed. Yes, nearly every home in the US uses toggle or decora style switches. However, it must be said that those swapping them out want something better than the standard fare. It's nice to keep things the same for existing users but how does that help long term growth? Existing users are already capped out for the most part. How many devices would they really purchase that would be sustainable for long term viability? Both old and new users OTOH would purchase multiple devices in order to rebuild their networks which means more sales over time. At one point, insteon did have great looking devices but it's grown stale when compared to other offerings. With looks being subjective, that does minimize the debate. However there are some things that can be quantified such as how a device feels and responds. Compared to zooz and the Nokia devices, build quality is much better on those. Switch response is as well. No cheap sounding click when a device is operated. Also, devices are much quieter when pressed. No super bright LEDs that needs to constantly changed because they're too bright in a dark room in addition to the understated classical elegance both bring to a home. The last part allows for easier integration into any decor. Refreshes happen all the time. That's how companies re-energize their base to get them to upgrade and attract new customers. That's why today's cars look nothing like they did 20 years ago. Home interiors are designed differently today than they were 10 years ago. Ditto for TV's, appliances, etc. Hell, even apple will redesign the iphone after a couple of years.

In dual band devices, timing is still based off the zero crossing regardless of how transmitted.

The RF is tied to the power line signal. With that said, the power line signal travels faster than the RF so RF only will be a tad slower.

I'd love to see them use the nokia line (renamed) vs bringing back the old stuff. Time to move forward vs holding onto the past. Insteon was sinking with the old line available. Prior to the last few years, many people lambasted insteon over the old line. Reality is, people have spoken and it's time to move on. Why bring old stuff back? Sure, you'll have quick sales while people stock up but nothing that will sustain them over time. As much as I supported them, i had already stopped buying insteon because the look has grown dated when compared to other modern offerings. Judging by all the devices available on eBay over the last few month, many others have moved on too. Either way it'll be some time device wise in regards to implementing changes. I'm sure all of their engineers and coders have moved on which means starting over with new people having to learn insteon. I'd love to see them make licensing deals but still question its worth overall. How many partners will jump on that band wagon when there are other technologies readily available and cheaper to implement.... Especially with matter on the horizon. I want to see them succeed but they have a long hard road ahead of them. Only time will tell what lessons were learned and if insteon can become viable again.

?. You don't see backup and restore in your screen shot

Your polisy doesn't have backup and restore options in the same place the Isy 994 has them?

Look at us trading places. I hope I'm wrong. When they finally release product we'll see.

No it does not. It's specifically for (excluding/including) removing a device from an old controller in order to add to a new one. Migrating is a different story which polisy doesn't support currently

It will be. Looks like some of the worst people (1 specifically) will be returning unfortunately.