Receive Email When Insteon Device Goes Offline?

[robhouston]

Hello, all:

I have a 994i with about 25 Insteon switches and dimmers and a few programs and routines.  I'd like to set something up to email me when a specific Insteon device goes offline.  In other words, that device no longer appears in the network, like when the power to the device is off.  

I have email notifications set up in my ISY, but so far, I haven't been able to figure out how to send an email when an Insteon device goes offline.  Is there a reasonable way to do this?

Thanks very much for any advice you can give.

Rob

[robhouston]

I'm surprised I haven't received any answers to my post above.  Unless someone posts an answer, I'll assume there is no reasonable way to get an email notification from the 994i when an insteon device goes offline.

If anyone knows otherwise, your comments are very much appreciated!

[jec6613]

The trouble with HA devices is that, by and large, they remain quiet and dormant except for a once a day heartbeat.  You'll need to run a periodic query to see if a device is responding, and then have some error handling, it's not terribly pretty.

I solved this with the new Zooz ZAC38.  It doesn't solve per se a specific Insteon device offline, but it does have a small battery and fires an alarm when it loses power itself.  I spread them around (and replaced a number of much older range extenders) and voila, I have circuit monitoring all over my house.

[robhouston]

Okay, thanks for the fast response.  I just read information about the ZAC38.  At this point, I don't have any Z-wave devices in my network, but this device seems like it can do what I need.  I'll need to look further into it.  

Thanks again!

 

[Geddy]

2 hours ago, robhouston said:

I'll assume there is no reasonable way to get an email notification from the 994i when an insteon device goes offline.

My first question would be why do you think devices are going "offline"? Do you think you have issues or are you trying to get a notification for if you ever end up having an issue?

I do not think there is a way to get any such notification since there doesn't appear to be a node of status for an individual device. If there is/was then there would be increased network traffic always sending a query out to the device to listen for a reply. Thus adding needless Insteon traffic to the system and possibly over working the ISY994.

With that in mind as @jec6613 comments about the heartbeat. As far as I know only Insteon battery devices send heartbeat signals. None of the wired devices do (or at least not that I've seen/experienced). There are examples of programs in the wiki and (old) ISY cookbook that should give you information for writing a program for heartbeat signals.

Turning the question back to you though about why you think this is something you need. If you're having signal issues then the biggest question should be what is causing the problem. Just getting an alert isn't going to help resolve the issue.

 

[robhouston]

Thanks for your response.

I have no issues with my Insteon network at all.  I haven't had any signal issues in a decade, fortunately.

I want to monitor a specific home electrical circuit which has on occasion tripped a GFCI breaker and cut power to a refrigerator.  I was hoping I could use an Insteon module through my 994i to email me if it went offline on that circuit, but that doesn't seem practical at this point.  Jec6613's solution using a Z Wave device might do the trick.

Thanks again!

[jec6613]

Side note: the Honeywell T6 thermostat also has a power loss alarm, so I use that to detect my HVAC circuit.  And I have enough that I can reliably detect a power loss leading to generator start.

[Geddy]

31 minutes ago, robhouston said:

I want to monitor a specific home electrical circuit which has on occasion tripped a GFCI breaker and cut power to a refrigerator. 

That's a different issue. There was a question recently about trying to figure out when power went out to a device. HA! It was a breaker in a post by @jec6613. Good comment there about a Z-Wave device with a battery backup. 

 

But, I think you'd be better off hiring an electrician to come in and test the circuit to see if they can figure out why it trips (regularly?).  Don't just stick a band-aid on a possible electrical issue!

 

[robhouston]

Thanks, Geddy, but this is not a regular occurrence.  It happened once in the past year, but it got me thinking about ways to monitor that circuit with a refrigerator.

Yes, I agree that Jec6613's suggestion for a Z Wave device could work for me. 

[jec6613]

5 minutes ago, Geddy said:

But, I think you'd be better off hiring an electrician to come in and test the circuit to see if they can figure out why it trips (regularly?).  Don't just stick a band-aid on a possible electrical issue!

I do both to be honest.  Generally though, a GFCI trip is caused by a faulty GFCI.  Newer ones are both more sensitive to actually ground faults, and have fewer nuisance trips.  I've only had one go bad, but my brother has had a few dozen.

If you're comfortable, usually it's easier to just replace, and if it keeps tripping then call the sparky.

Edited January 18 by jec6613

[paulbates]

I monitor 2 of 27 Insteon devices, 2450 io modules that monitor my sump pump. 

This post has examples of how to program it

It only runs when I don't hear from one monitoring the motor running after 5 hours, so it rarely runs. Trying to do this for 25 devices will involve 26 - 50 programs, depending how you initiate the query, and will create significant Insteon traffic with messages going out and coming back to 25 devices that could collide with each other

Maybe program the  critical one like the fridge, scheduled to run a couple times a day(?)

[robhouston]

Great idea, Paul, and it's only the one circuit that I'm interested in monitoring, so I don't think I'd have the traffic collision problem.  

Thanks very much for pointing me in this direction!

[IndyMike]

1 hour ago, robhouston said:

I want to monitor a specific home electrical circuit which has on occasion tripped a GFCI breaker and cut power to a refrigerator.  I was hoping I could use an Insteon module through my 994i to email me if it went offline on that circuit, but that doesn't seem practical at this point.  Jec6613's solution using a Z Wave device might do the trick.

A number of points regarding GFCI's, refrigerators, and Insteon/zwave:

1. Refrigerators absolutely can trip GFCI breakers at both turn on and shut off.  This is far more likely with older refrigerators which have higher inductive loading.
2. GFCI's are not required for refrigerators in a Kitchen.  They are absolutely required in garages and unfinished basements.  I'm assuming your installation is one of these.
3. If your refrigerator is on a dedicated circuit, a 15A GFCI is sufficient.  If the circuit has branches (other outlets) a 20A circuit is required (2011 code - your location may differ).
4. Insteon and Zwave devices/communication can CAUSE GFCI trips depending on the type of devices installed on the GFCI.  The higher frequencies used by Insteon can activate "sneak paths" in devices that are interpreted as valid GFCI faults.  The Zwave fault (Aetec repeater) I don't yet understand - If I plug the repeater in a GFCI and communicate via Zwave it will trip the breaker.

To the points above, have a look at the devices on the circuit.  If you are above 80% rated load, unplug/ move some items.  It you have items that may include EMI filtering (chargers and the like), they may include sneak paths that can be activated by using Insteon communication.

The idea of using the Zooz alarm is good for absolute power monitoring.  No questions, you will be notified it the power fails.  A similar method would be to monitor your refrigerator temperature.  I've recently started monitoring my basement refrigerator temperature using a Aqara Zigbee sensor.  It's accurate, low power, and is currently giving reliable communication from inside my refrigerator 35' away (still in the testing phase).

Unfortunately, incorporating either Zigbee or Zwave will likely force you to upgrade from the ISY994.

 

[robhouston]

IndyMike, you make some good points.  The smaller refrigerator in question is only 4 years old and located in the garage.  The only other devices on the 20A circuit are the garage door openers.  

Your comments about Insteon and Z Wave devices causing GFCI trips is interesting.  I've never had a GFCI breaker trip on another circuit where I have 3 Insteon switches, but maybe I've just been lucky.

I keep thinking it might be time to upgrade the 994i, but honestly, it's been working extremely well for me, so I haven't been motivated to move ahead with the change.

Interesting idea to monitor the refrigerator temperature.  I hadn't considered that possibility, so thanks for pointing me in that direction.

 

 

[IndyMike]

23 minutes ago, robhouston said:

The smaller refrigerator in question is only 4 years old and located in the garage.  The only other devices on the 20A circuit are the garage door openers. 

20A circuit with a small Refer and garage openers for a load - probably not a loading issue.

 

24 minutes ago, robhouston said:

Your comments about Insteon and Z Wave devices causing GFCI trips is interesting.  I've never had a GFCI breaker trip on another circuit where I have 3 Insteon switches, but maybe I've just been lucky.

My experience has been with Insteon devices with "other" loads.  A HP printer/appliancelinc would cause trips in my basement when on the same circuit.  Remove either and the problem went away.

My Masterbuilt smoker will trip the GFCI without an Insteon load installed.  If I power the smoker up and communicate with anything in the house, the breaker trips.  I put a filter on the smoker to prevent trips.

As I said, I don't completely understand the Aeotec repeater. 

31 minutes ago, robhouston said:

I keep thinking it might be time to upgrade the 994i, but honestly, it's been working extremely well for me, so I haven't been motivated to move ahead with the change.

I get that.  I'm still happily running my 994i.  I'll give up on it when it gives up on me.

32 minutes ago, robhouston said:

Interesting idea to monitor the refrigerator temperature.  I hadn't considered that possibility, so thanks for pointing me in that direction.

A friend on the forum recently shared his good experiences with YoLink.  Interesting devices that tout their long communication range.  Reasonably priced (requires a hub), I am looking at using sensors for my buddies outbuilding.  They do have temperature sensors that supposedly will work in refrigerators.   

[robhouston]

IndyMike, thanks again for the ideas.

 

[gzahar]

Another option that I have used in the past.

If you are using PG3 and have any spare IoT devices (webcams, etc.) that respond to pings, you can monitor communications to that device using the ping plug-in.  This moves query traffic off the Insteon network.

[apostolakisl]

As was mentioned, you usually do not put refrigerators on GFCI circuits, but that is a separate point.

What you are basically asking for is to monitor for the presence of power.  If you want to do that with Insteon and have an immediate report of loss of power, well, there isn't an Insteon device that does that.  However, you could make one.  I would suggest using a small electromagnet and an Insteon door close sensor.  Into another outlet on the same circuit as the fridge, plug in the electro magent.  Put the battery powered Insteon device next to that magnet.  If the magnet shuts off, then the door sensor will show "open" status.  Since the Insteon device is battery powered, it will be able to immediately communicate the power loss.  The electormagnets I am thinking of run on 12vdc so you would plug in a 12vdc wall wart and then connect that to the magnet power supply.   The magnet I show here pulls 4w, so you might hunt for a less powerful magnet, or perhaps you could try powering it off of lower voltage. 

Edited January 19 by apostolakisl

[ELA]

Some newer Refrigerators utilize a VFD on their motors. At an increasing rate they are tripping GFCI's.

This is being recognized and Leviton is now offering a Wifi connected GFCI to report when it has been trippped.

Here is a link:  https://store.leviton.com/products/20-amp-smartlockpro-wi-fi-certified-smart-gfci-receptacle-outlet-white-d2gf2-kw?variant=43908872175846

 

 

 

[robhouston]

2 hours ago, gzahar said:

Another option that I have used in the past.

If you are using PG3 and have any spare IoT devices (webcams, etc.) that respond to pings, you can monitor communications to that device using the ping plug-in.  This moves query traffic off the Insteon network.

Thanks for the suggestion, gzahar, but I'm not using PG3 at this point.  For now, I'm sticking with my 994i.

Thanks again!

[robhouston]

44 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

As was mentioned, you usually do not put refrigerators on GFCI circuits, but that is a separate point.

What you are basically asking for is to monitor for the presence of power.  If you want to do that with Insteon and have an immediate report of loss of power, well, there isn't an Insteon device that does that.  However, you could make one.  I would suggest using a small electromagnet and an Insteon door close sensor.  Into another outlet on the same circuit as the fridge, plug in the electro magent.  Put the battery powered Insteon device next to that magnet.  If the magnet shuts off, then the door sensor will show "open" status.  Since the Insteon device is battery powered, it will be able to immediately communicate the power loss.  The electormagnets I am thinking of run on 12vdc so you would plug in a 12vdc wall wart and then connect that to the magnet power supply.   The magnet I show here pulls 4w, so you might hunt for a less powerful magnet, or perhaps you could try powering it off of lower voltage. 

Very interesting idea-----thanks!  I suspect that might work for me.  Thanks very much for the suggestion.

[robhouston]

35 minutes ago, ELA said:

Some newer Refrigerators utilize a VFD on their motors. At an increasing rate they are tripping GFCI's.

This is being recognized and Leviton is now offering a Wifi connected GFCI to report when it has been trippped.

Here is a link:  https://store.leviton.com/products/20-amp-smartlockpro-wi-fi-certified-smart-gfci-receptacle-outlet-white-d2gf2-kw?variant=43908872175846

 

 

 

Interesting device, ELA.  However, the breaker for this circuit is GFCI, and I know mixing GFCI breakers and outlets can cause additional issues.  Thanks for the suggestion!

[DennisC]

On 1/18/2024 at 12:53 PM, robhouston said:

I want to monitor a specific home electrical circuit which has on occasion tripped a GFCI breaker and cut power to a refrigerator. 

Yolink makes a power fail sensor. You plug it in to power from that circuit and you can use their app to email you if it loses power. It also has a loud audible alarm.

[tazman]

I think this could be done with a micro on/off module mount the module in the panel power it off of another breaker and run the control wire to the breaker you want to monitor then write a program that notifies you when the module is turned off. My disclaimer is I have never used an on/off module and this is just idea and I have no way to verify it will work but maybe someone with more experience with this device can verify it will work.

[robhouston]

12 hours ago, DennisC said:

Yolink makes a power fail sensor. You plug it in to power from that circuit and you can use their app to email you if it loses power. It also has a loud audible alarm.

Thanks, DennisC, I think this is a great solution.