UDI EISY Update 2025

[mmb]

Not sure why Michel didn't post this update on the Forum.

Lots of good news.

https://www.universal-devices.com/2025-liftoff/

Edited December 20 by mmb
changed URL to direct link

[chris.com]

There's some very exciting and welcome news in this announcement! I am confused on one thing: it mentions OS 14.1. Are we going from version 5.8.4 to 14.1? That would be quite a jump. Or is 14.1 some other operating system component I'm not clued into?

Edited December 19 by chris.com

[Guy Lavoie]

3 minutes ago, chris.com said:

@mmbOr is 14.1 some other operating system component I'm not clued into?

That would be a unix version that eisy is running on. It's currently been 13.1 for most people.

[Guy Lavoie]

My question is: how different will the look and feel of the new admin console be? For all it's quirks, we get used to them, so needing to relearn stuff is always a bit annoying. Will there be new console user features too? For example, it would be handy to be able to comment out program lines instead of always needing to delete them. New monitoring tools? Another thing that would be useful is a user log file that you can write to by program action. It would be handy to be able to do things like log the locking/ unlocking of doors, alarm activation, or for troubleshooting. It would be easier than needing to try to filter through hundreds of lines of the activity log.

Just a few ideas.

[Ed Sybesma]

In the posts on the announcement regarding this (to which I am unable to reply despite being logged in), it says that the new administrative console will be web-based. Will it, hopefully, also be available locally  for those instances where Internet communication is down or poor? Also, will we be able to continue using the existing administrative console until the new one is fully compatible with Z-Wave?

[Guy Lavoie]

2 minutes ago, Ed Sybesma said:

In the posts on the announcement regarding this (to which I am unable to reply despite being logged in), it says that the new administrative console will be web-based. Will it, hopefully, also be available locally  for those instances where Internet communication is down or poor? Also, will we be able to continue using the existing administrative console until the new one is fully compatible with Z-Wave?

Hopefully, they meant to say browser based...

[SHM]

Will the new OS run on Polisy PG3X?

[paulbates]

27 minutes ago, SHM said:

Will the new OS run on Polisy PG3X?

1. In the comments in the announcement, Michel says "yes"
2. The initial Jan 25 release is Insteon only

[chris.com]

5 hours ago, Guy Lavoie said:

Hopefully, they meant to say browser based...

Agreed. I use Ubiquiti Unifi routers, switches, and WAPs. Their web interface is a beautiful example of eisy's potential. I hope they are eventually able to deliver a similar experience. Putting a bullet through the java app will no doubt be a game changer for existing users. But I suspect it will be a game changer for Universal Devices as a company, making the platform far more accessible to many more customers. I also hope that the journey to feature parity doesn't drag on for years. (See Google Voice.)

Fingers crossed. 🤞

[larryllix]

Awesome!

A long awaited opportunity for the HTML5 people to link into ISY with hundreds of different angles.

Let the debugging begin to a more exciting future!

Will ISY be the official controller to go to Mars? Let's get Elon on the phone.

Edited December 20 by larryllix

[oskrypuch]

There has been little comment on the new browser UI. I sure hope it is not a drag and drop, app-like, limited functionality thing.

The UDI app is super useful, but it has a different mission and cannot replace a full IDE. (well, as full as we have now)

* Orest

Edited December 20 by oskrypuch

[paulbates]

There's a thousand and one assumptions we can all make about how it's going to be architected.

It's probably best to be encouraged that they've been listening and are working on it, and evaluate it once we can do that.

[apostolakisl]

Oh it would be so wonderful if the new version ditches the Java console.  That thing stinks and has only gotten worse.  Back in the old days, like 15 or 20 years ago, CTRL-ALT-Delete was something you just got used to doing to kill frozen apps.  Skip to today, and CTRL-ALT-Delete is all but forgotten, but for the ISY Java console which, if left open for more than a few hours, requires a CTRL-ALT-Delete.  You might say it is my computer, but then you would have to say it is all of my computers, like 5 of them that I commonly use for ISY.  And it has gotten slower and slower.  Trying to edit lots of programs just gets so painful waiting several seconds after every change to take affect and allow you to move on.

Please let ISY have a snappy high quality browser based console!

[apostolakisl]

9 hours ago, oskrypuch said:

There has been little comment on the new browser UI. I sure hope it is not a drag and drop, app-like, limited functionality thing.

The UDI app is super useful, but it has a different mission and cannot replace a full IDE. (well, as full as we have now)

* Orest

Totally agree.  UD mobile is great, but can never be an efficient place to do lots of editing.  

[oskrypuch]

FWIW, there is nothing (necessarily) slow, limited, clunky or "old" about a program written in Java. For example, some of the best IDEs are fully java, and very impressive and powerful.

It is all in the programming.

A web based interface can be slow and clunky as well.

*  Orest

Edited Monday at 10:59 PM by oskrypuch

[mmb]

On 12/19/2024 at 4:49 PM, chris.com said:

I use Ubiquiti Unifi routers, switches, and WAPs.

I'm using Unifi as well.

The Unifi Protect doorbell and cams trigger the eisy/insteon lighting nicely using their webhooks.

[chris.com]

7 hours ago, oskrypuch said:

FWIW, there is nothing (necessarily) slow, limited, clunky or "old" about a program written in Java. For example, some of the best IDEs are fully java, and very impressive and powerful.

It is all in the programming.

*  Orest

I do not disagree. My point is that the Java app is a significant barrier for many people. Not people like us, but to people like my friend Warren for example. He loves tricking out his home and he's got lots of disposable income. He's jealous of all of the home automation I've got running with eisy/insteon/etc and would gladly shell out thousands of dollars to do it at his house. But when I showed him the app, he started asking questions. I'm paraphrasing, but the conversation went something like this.

"When you start the app, why do you have to do that thing with the IoX Finder?"
"Not 100% sure. I think that if you have multiple eisys, you can pick which one to launch the Java app with."
"What's Java?"
"Java is a runtime that you have to install on your computer in order to be able to run the eisy app."
"Runtime?"
"Yeah... it's kind of like an interpreter. A developer can write just one base of code and the then the runtime for that operating system allows that single code base to run."
"Why is that necessary?"
"Because when they developed the interface, Java was probably the most economical way to get it running on any platform."
"So it'll run on anything? Do you install Java on your iPad in order to run the app?"
"No. The Java runtime isn't a thing on iOS. iOS doesn't really do 'runtimes.'"
"So what if I want to use my iPad?"
"You can; there's an app you can download for your iPad, but it doesn't do everything the Java app does."
"Why not?"
"I'm guessing it's partly because it's still being developed, but probably partly because of some inherent limitations of mobile apps."
"So in order to do everything that I might want to do, I HAVE to have a regular computer."
"Right."
"My computer was issued to me by my job. They probably wouldn't like me installing all that on there."
"I suspect that's true."
"My wife has a Mac. I could install it on there, but then I'd have to borrow her computer every time I wanted to make programs and do stuff."
"Yeah."
"Yeah... I'm out."

If Universal Devices could create an experience where my friend Warren and people like him could just buy it, get on board, and get a few things working quickly and easily, they would have a whole new market. To use a pool analogy, the deep end is great for us nerds, but people are intimidated by jumping into the deep end. There needs to be a kiddie pool and and a shallow end so that people will be encouraged to get in the pool in the first place and then work their way to the deep end. I think the Java app is part of what makes the eisy platform a bridge too far for many people.
 

Edited Saturday at 09:58 PM by chris.com

[Ed Sybesma]

4 minutes ago, chris.com said:

If Universal Devices could create an experience where my friend Warren and people like him could just but it, get on board, and get a few things working quickly and easily, they would have a whole new market.

I totally agree, and apparently, hopefully, that is what UD is in the process of doing.

[Guy Lavoie]

Well, the more features and device support that gets added, the harder it is to create a dumbed down version. What do you leave out? I suppose you could have it just do macros and scheduled tasks...like a hub.

[Ed Sybesma]

I definitely would not want a dumbed down version in terms of capabilities. I don't think there has to be a trade-off between that and easing the path for beginners.

[Guy Lavoie]

21 hours ago, Ed Sybesma said:

I definitely would not want a dumbed down version in terms of capabilities. I don't think there has to be a trade-off between that and easing the path for beginners.

Well the version itself could always be fully capable, but could offer wizard style utilities for people who want to do simpler stuff like scheduled tasks or macros. A bit like the Alexa app from Amazon, which steps you through programming a routine. That could help someone get started. Then if they want to get in deeper, access the full programming screens.

The mention of ipads in the case of Chris's friend Warren is another thing. I actually commented on this elsewhere, when it was mentioned that Apple Homekit support would be added. Apple users are more often than not non-geeks. They just want things to work without needing to go into technical stuff. This is where wizard like features might help with that.

[Ed Sybesma]

Incidentally, one reason I care about the path for beginners is the desire to ensure that UD is sufficiently successful that it sticks around for a long time to come, and continues to make the kind of  advances we have seen to date. (Of course, one might not want it to be so successful that it gets bought out by some giant corporation or goes public. Sorry, Michael.)

[Dr. Q]

Getting rid of Java? Hmm, I may have to rethink my game plan.

 I switched to Indigo from ISY a few years ago because I’m a Mac guy, but I missed some advantages that the ISY had. But not Java. However, I did purchase an EISY last year with the intention to switch back. I chickened out when I considered the pain of re-linking all the Insteon/Z-wave/Hue devices to the new system.

There are still some integrations that I would need to be equivalent to my current system, such as using UniFi Protect cameras as motion sensors. Home Assistant might close that gap.

I’ll be watching this space.

Chuck

[apostolakisl]

I have used Java for other things without issue, but the admin console for ISY is very unstable and buggy.  Lots of hidden windows that you can't find/close and it just hangs, refusing to shut down by anything other than a ctrl-alt-delete.  Again, I regularly access ISY from 3 different computers and all 3 experience the same problems, so it isn't my PC.  And then you have to keep re-installing the applet and updating it, and then I have had Java updates that don't install correctly requiring a complete wiping of Java from my system and starting from scratch.  It would be so much nicer if EISY could host a local web page like so many others do. 

[oskrypuch]

@chris.com 

Quote

If Universal Devices could create an experience where my friend Warren and people like him could just buy it, get on board, and get a few things working quickly and easily, they would have a whole new market. To use a pool analogy, the deep end is great for us nerds, but people are intimidated by jumping into the deep end. There needs to be a kiddie pool and and a shallow end so that people will be encouraged to get in the pool in the first place and then work their way to the deep end.

As long as there still is a full & maintained deep end, sure, I am all for creating a simpler interface that will build market share for UDI for a wider audience. But building a portable interface in stateless HTML, dolled up with JS, and making it slick and powerful can be a bit daunting as well.

An interesting reflection ....

Many years ago, basic variables were introduced in the interface. Of course before that, you had to use "programs" THEN/ELSE as booleans. I was all excited, as many were.

But, I remember a post at that time, "What is a variable, and what would you use it for?"

That pretty much defines the two markets.

* Orest