My Devices are listed under Nodes and I found Programs under Automation but I can't find my Scenes anywhere. I'm at eisy 0.9.0, which it says is the latest version.

This is a very difficult migration after many years with Admin Console. So much is different. Is there any documentation showing a typical Admin Console and what it should like in eisy after migration? I'd like to see some examples of Tiles and Widgets that shows how they are useful?

43 minutes ago, shadowb said:

My Devices are listed under Nodes and I found Programs under Automation but I can't find my Scenes anywhere. I'm at eisy 0.9.0, which it says is the latest version.

This is a very difficult migration after many years with Admin Console. So much is different. Is there any documentation showing a typical Admin Console and what it should like in eisy after migration? I'd like to see some examples of Tiles and Widgets that shows how they are useful?

Up to date? Did you refresh packages?

1 hour ago, shadowb said:

My Devices are listed under Nodes and I found Programs under Automation but I can't find my Scenes anywhere. I'm at eisy 0.9.0, which it says is the latest version.

This is a very difficult migration after many years with Admin Console. So much is different. Is there any documentation showing a typical Admin Console and what it should like in eisy after migration? I'd like to see some examples of Tiles and Widgets that shows how they are useful?

Scenes are in the Nodes Page, just as they are in Admin Console. Must be on the latest relasee.

8 hours ago, shadowb said:

I can't find my Scenes anywhere

Also, "scenes" are now "groups".

They are intermixed now with all the nodes.....they have a different symbol:

Personally, I preferred them listed separately at the bottom as in the AC. They were much easier to find

Two way around this that I am contemplating: add them all to a new Folder called SCENES or change my nomenclature method to add a special character in front of all scenes to allow them to be sorted together

Just havent gotten to it yet.

Edited Tuesday at 12:19 PM1 day by dbwarner5

3 hours ago, dbwarner5 said:

They are intermixed now with all the nodes.....they have a different symbol:

Personally, I preferred them listed separately at the bottom as in the AC. They were much easier to find

Two way around this that I am contemplating: add them all to a new Folder called SCENES or change my nomenclature method to add a special character in front of all scenes to allow them to be sorted together

Just havent gotten to it yet.

While we could sort by the type (folder/device/group), it is, and has always been imperfect. In AC groups can be added to folders so they are not always at the bottom. If we forced to always at the bottom it would break new sorting options eisy-ui (like name/status/etc).

Add to a folder or using folders as rooms/locations then adding the group into the room/location folder is the best of both options. Personally have a Scenes folder where I keep my Scenes based on room/location

5 hours ago, oberkc said:

Also, "scenes" are now "groups".

We are trying to break an old habit saying Scene for both Groups and Scenes.

A Group is the group of devices which are controllers and/or responders for the group.
A Scene is how a Controller issues commands to responders.
There can be multiple Scenes in a group.
There is a Virtual (device) Controller in every group with the same name as the Group.
The Scene for the Virtual Controller defines what happens when a command is issued from eisy (AC/eisy-ui/UD-Mobile) to the group (not what happens if another controller issues a command).
A device can only be a controller for one Group.

As @dbwarner5 suggested, I'd also prefer scenes to be under a separate tab, right under nodes.

34 minutes ago, Javi said:

We are trying to break an old habit saying Scene for both Groups and Scenes.

A Group is the group of devices which are controllers and/or responders for the group.
A Scene is how a Controller issues commands to responders.
There can be multiple Scenes in a group.
There is Virtual (device) Controller in every group with the same name as the Group.
The Scene for the Virtual Controller defines what happens when a command is issued from eisy (AC/eisy-ui/UD-Mobile) to the group (not what happens if another controller issues a command).
A device can only be a controller for one Group.

To my knowledge, I’ve only created scenes. What does this mean to me?

22 minutes ago, Guy Lavoie said:

As @dbwarner5 suggested, I'd also prefer scenes to be under a separate tab, right under nodes.

Would break for existing uses that already have Devices and Scenes in the same folders, this is not new and has led to confusion in the past. The issue for eisy-ui is, in addition to the current issues, it would also break sort, a new feature.

The root issue is the opposite. In the Admin Console Devices outside of a folder are grouped into a faux folder (named ISY or whatever the controller is named) which is also confusing unless accustom to the behaviour. When a device is removed from a folder it gets placed in the faux folder, this does not happen anywhere else.

The approach is to let users decide where they place the items, instead of creating a faux folder. So for users that prefer their scenes and devices are separate, they have the option. For user that perfere they are grouped by location, they also have the option.

2 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

To my knowledge, I’ve only created scenes. What does this mean to me?

Users can only create Groups, the scenes are created automatically within groups for each controller. Scenes can be edited (including ignore) but not deleted. Groups can be deleted.

Always been the case, just a distinction between what is Group and Scene.

Ok, no biggie. All my scenes are named "Scn_xxx" so they appear together. I did like that they appeared at the bottom in admin console. Could be forced if prefixed with a high ascii character.

11 minutes ago, Javi said:

Would break for existing uses that already have Devices and Scenes in the same folders, this is not new and has led to confusion in the past. The issue for eisy-ui is, in addition to the current issues, it would also break sort, a new feature.

The root issue is the opposite. In the Admin Console Devices outside of a folder are grouped into a faux folder (named ISY or whatever the controller is named) which is also confusing unless accustom to the behaviour. When a device is removed from a folder it gets placed in the faux folder, this does not happen anywhere else.

The approach is to let users decide where they place the items, instead of creating a faux folder. So for users that prefer their scenes and devices are separate, they have the option. For user that perfere they are grouped by location, they also have the option.

Users can only create Groups, the scenes are created automatically within groups for each controller. Scenes can be edited (including ignore) but not deleted. Groups can be deleted.

Always been the case, just a distinction between what is Group and Scene.

Sorry but I’m confused. I’ve always clicked on New Scene in AC and then added Controllers and Responders to the scene which are then called Managed Scene. Please inform me about Groups.

Edited Tuesday at 05:24 PM1 day by hart2hart

17 minutes ago, hart2hart said:

Sorry but I’m confused. I’ve always clicked on New Scene in AC and then added Controllers and Responders to the scene which are then called Managed Scene. Please inform me about Groups.

Well in eisy-ui, go into the Nodes list and click on the "+" at the top. You'll be asked if you want to create a new folder or a new group (ie: scene). Similarly, when you're browsing nodes, you can right click on one and one of the choices is "Add to group".

Group is the new Scene...

Wait until you discover how editable scenes (err...groups) are! You click on the ">" left of the controller name and you can edit every detail (dim level, ramp rate, color, etc) of each responder.

Edited Tuesday at 05:40 PM1 day by Guy Lavoie

1 hour ago, Javi said:

We are trying to break an old habit saying Scene for both Groups and Scenes.

A Group is the group of devices which are controllers and/or responders for the group.
A Scene is how a Controller issues commands to responders.
There can be multiple Scenes in a group.
There is Virtual (device) Controller in every group with the same name as the Group.
The Scene for the Virtual Controller defines what happens when a command is issued from eisy (AC/eisy-ui/UD-Mobile) to the group (not what happens if another controller issues a command).
A device can only be a controller for one Group.

@Javi I appreciate this explanation. I was confused by the switch from scenes (which has been referenced by every resource up to now, including the forums, wiki and even Insteon documentation) to groups. I understand now what you are trying to clarify. You might also give some thought to how to refer to devices or nodes that have "subnodes". Right now, this is also referred to as grouping nodes in Eisy-UI, not to be confused with groups previously scenes. Some other term might be better for this consolidation of subnodes under the prime node, although I can't come up with any recommendations off hand.

Dave

Thanks to everyone for your help! I now know that Version info in System does NOT mean I'm up to date when Current Version and Upgrade To match! I did the Upgrade Packages and now I have SCENES although called something else. I'm learning a lot just by reading the responses to this thread.

Thanks to all again. I will likely be back as I work my way through these changes.

5 hours ago, Javi said:

We are trying to break an old habit saying Scene for both Groups and Scenes

I understand. A few years ago, I believe there was confusion between how insteon defined scenes versus how UD defined them. But...when one is wondering where the scenes are shown and created/edited, it seemed worth mentioning.

8 hours ago, Javi said:

We are trying to break an old habit saying Scene for both Groups and Scenes.

A Group is the group of devices which are controllers and/or responders for the group.
A Scene is how a Controller issues commands to responders.
There can be multiple Scenes in a group.
There is Virtual (device) Controller in every group with the same name as the Group.
The Scene for the Virtual Controller defines what happens when a command is issued from eisy (AC/eisy-ui/UD-Mobile) to the group (not what happens if another controller issues a command).
A device can only be a controller for one Group.

This is a NEW concept to get our heads around. It makes more sense to me now what I am looking at in the "Group". It was very confusing until I read this.

Nope I need to go and look at some, create some and make this sink home a bit.

It makes more sense of a "group" name vs a scene.

Thanks for the explanation!!

18 hours ago, DNewkirk said:

@Javi I appreciate this explanation. I was confused by the switch from scenes (which has been referenced by every resource up to now, including the forums, wiki and even Insteon documentation) to groups. I understand now what you are trying to clarify. You might also give some thought to how to refer to devices or nodes that have "subnodes". Right now, this is also referred to as grouping nodes in Eisy-UI, not to be confused with groups previously scenes. Some other term might be better for this consolidation of subnodes under the prime node, although I can't come up with any recommendations off hand.

Dave

Maybe collapse devices instead of group devices, and un-collapse as the reverse?

19 hours ago, Guy Lavoie said:

Wait until you discover how editable scenes (err...groups) are! You click on the ">" left of the controller name and you can edit every detail (dim level, ramp rate, color, etc) of each responder.

Exactly the reason for the change, the same edits exists in the Admin Console. It is difficult to explain this to users without a vernacular change.

1 hour ago, Javi said:

Maybe collapse devices instead of group devices, and un-collapse as the reverse?

That might work, although combining them doesn't necessarily collapse the combination as it could still stay expanded in the tree. To me, collapsing is what you do to the tree after they are "grouped".

Maybe associate, combine, cluster, or unite? Of these options, I think I am leaning towards associate or cluster, but maybe others can chime in on what terminology would be clear to them.

Dave

I like cluster!

On 10/20/2026 at 1:03 PM, Javi said:

Would break for existing uses that already have Devices and Scenes in the same folders, this is not new and has led to confusion in the past. The issue for eisy-ui is, in addition to the current issues, it would also break sort, a new feature.

The root issue is the opposite. In the Admin Console Devices outside of a folder are grouped into a faux folder (named ISY or whatever the controller is named) which is also confusing unless accustom to the behaviour. When a device is removed from a folder it gets placed in the faux folder, this does not happen anywhere else.

The approach is to let users decide where they place the items, instead of creating a faux folder. So for users that prefer their scenes and devices are separate, they have the option. For user that perfere they are grouped by location, they also have the option.

Users can only create Groups, the scenes are created automatically within groups for each controller. Scenes can be edited (including ignore) but not deleted. Groups can be deleted.

Always been the case, just a distinction between what is Group and Scene.

@Javi

What about adding a FILTER button on the top tool bar that would open a drop down checkbox list where you can filter the display to one or more categories - switches, dimmers, sensors, locks, GROUPS etc..? It could also auto-expand the folder tree when a filter is in use. This would improve the user experience and shouldn't break anything.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Diesel

The Nodes Page and the Programs Page are scheduled to be rebuilt, so at that time we can add other meta data to search/filter, such as type. Currently it is handled by the datagrid itself so only filters by visible data. This would allow for predefined filters, and/or the search for "groups" or "scenes" to show all groups or scenes