lilyoyo1

My point wasn't that insteon needs a hub because it technically doesn't. I wasn't referring to insteon directly but hubs in general. We had already gotten past insteon at that point and were talking about the desire of people using hubs and I said I felt hubs that would be part of a niche market as the space was moving away from that. Hubs aren't making a comeback for the masses. They won't completely disappear as there are use cases but for most people, they're simply isn't a need.

I get what you're saying. I'm just not that way not is my wife. For me none of that matters. I could save a few dollars by washing/drying clothes at a different time, but what good is that if it means I'm doing it at a time where I prefer doing something else? We wash for it convenience not a few dollars. Our house is a newer home as are our appliances and so forth. While they can and will fail, the same holds true for them. Every year we get our equipment serviced. While something can break between servicing, I can live with the cost of calling someone. Whether I catch my hvac about to break out after it breaks, I'm still calling someone. I'm from California and my mindset is the same there and here in NC. I'm good with paying for the stuff I purchased to enjoy. Monitoring isn't going to change that to why do it

What protocol do you think has everything? Every company/protocol has holes in it's product line. This could be devices, product features, or experience. There is no 1 size fits all. The best system is the one which does what a person is looking for. For example, I have no desire for energy monitoring. I know if I turn something on its using electricity. How much it uses isn't going to make me stop using that device, so energy monitoring (or lack of) isn't going to make or break it for me. In the DYI space, the controller is more important to me than the underlying devices. I'd want something that allows me to mix and match (ISY is my favorite) devices to get the most out of my system. While nothing on your list matters to me, the right controller would allow me to fill in missing devices from other protocols

Welcome back. Haven't seen you on the forums in a while

At this point I think anyone looking at a singular technology as best is selling themselves short. With the ISY and nodeservers, best should be looked at from the device level. For example, I look at lights, lamps, accent, etc as separate entities. For that I use insteon because I feel there are no better options in that price range for what I want to do. At one time, I chose fibaro for my motion sensors as I felt no other sensors were better. Subsequently, I grown to like Dome's motion sensors more. You won't go wrong with either one but the general gist is that zwave has better sensors so I go with them. I have a mixture of insteon and zwave outlets. I use zwave outlets to build my zwave network as well as places I don't need dual outlets. Insteon for the rest. For lamps and accent light, I use Philips hue bulbs. I like their ecosystem and the fact that it's more customizable than lifx (though lifx has better colors and so forth). If insteon goes under, when I redo the house, I'd probably go with Control4 since there are drivers to integrate it with the ISY. For scalability and full home automation nothing beats a full scale dedicated home automation system. This applies whether tone uses insteon, zwave, lutron, Control4, Savant, or Crestron. Those looking for full scale are no longer the avg consumer. Mainstream users tend to have a specialized interest vs a control everything mindset like we do. They wouldn't know AX from wifi6 (which is the same thing) and probably don't care. They just want their stuff to work and be done with it.

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. This segment of the discussion was about hubs and simplicity. What the general public wants. Puttputt and golf are 2 different things which is why neither worries about market share. That's why you don't see puttputt making millionaires unlike golf. The same as automation vs control crowd. The control crowd isn't aware they are the control crowd. In their minds they have automation. Control and automation is one in the same to them so there is nothing for someone to "take over" which is why automation will be a niche market Builders that focus on building homes and providing a comprehensive package will use a specialist to wire in an automation system. Whether they use lutron, Control4, crestron is irrelevant. They are selling a package to someone willing to pay for it and do the work for them. Some builders will add some smart devices such as a Sonos component, thermostat, and Ring camera to say they are doing something. Its a quick and easy way to claim smart home without investing alot. This is a far cry from Joe Schmo who simply wants to turn a few lights on in his man cave. He or she will start with that small project, love it and add more to another area. They aren't aware or understandof the impact of adding too many devices to their Network. The fact is, if hub usage/desire were growing, more companies would be looking at building hubs. They arent. Its a niche market. The ones in that space will fight amongst each other for their respective market just like the home control crowd will do the same for theirs. The control crowd will just be much larger

Do they have a public API for their cameras? There's not a nodeserver in the store for it but once could potentially be developed for them if there is one

You're looking at things with your mindset not realizing you are not the avg person. The fact that you use the Isy means you took time to do the research, found a product that met your needs and was willing to take the time to configure and set up your system. Regardless of how complex your system is, it's more than most are willing to do. The difference is what it takes to set something up. With the ISY, homeseer, or any hub; you're connecting it to your router, configuring something and adding devices. These simple wifi devices are much easier. Download an app, plug something in, app finds device (or scan device, and your done.

The difference is in who's doing the setup. That changes things alot

A new build vs retrofits are 2 different markets and situations. The market Dynamics are different. With a new build, a specialist is generally doing the work since it's generally part of a package that the homeowner adds while retrofits are generally people already living somewhere simply wanting to add something. A specialist doing an installation isn't mainstream and knows what he needs and how to accomplish what he wants. Hubs won't disappear. They have a place. I just think it'll be a niche market

Your knowledge as well as the fact that you use the isy takes you out of the mainstream argument. The avg person doesn't understand routers, and such. How often do you see people with a 50 dollar router (if they bought their own at that) in a 2500 sq foot home wondering why they have dead spots and sorry internet speeds. Most likely they aren't outfitting their whole house at once. They are buying a couple of things here and there.

I prefer this route. It needs to disappear like V3 did. All forums for it locked and hidden. If someone needs help tell them to upgrade first. Lol

Some will but I don't think the majority will. When you look around, it's the companies where hubs aren't needed that gets the most press. Hue Bluetooth, lifx, wemo, Yeelight....the list goes on. Where do you hear anything about hubs? Sure, smartthings gets some press. Maybe Wemo gets a quick mention. Other than that where's the press? Where are the new hubs in general? Even the major companies are hubless. Ecobee doesn't use one for their switches. Amazon built it into their speaker and the standard echo still outsells the plus. If hubs mattered that much, more companies would be rushing to fill in that space. That alone speaks volumes. One only needs to look at Philips Hue to see that. Despite all of the limitations with their Bluetooth bulb, the press is raving about it. When they talk about the regular lineup, they speak down on the need of a hub. Then you have Alexa, Google, Apple connection without a hub. Each with their own app. Mainstream consumers go by what they read, see, and hear. They rarely research or see the bigger picture. Because of those Dynamics hubs are on their way to being a niche market.

For me, automation and control are 2 different things. The avg person wants automation but either doesn't have the finances, capability, or desires to make it happen. They are happy with "good enough" which is what the "control" crowd basically falls into. I don't think this crowd is hub based regardless of how simple things are. That's why when I see people talking about the "only way the isy will go mainstream or be taken seriously" makes me laugh. Mainstream doesn't want a hub at all. The good enough crowd just needs a phone and assistant connected device. A couple of timers, voice control, and the ability to say "look what I can do" as they pull out their phone.

This is why I say security needs to be put into perspective. While anything CAN happen, what 1 must go through to make it happen makes it highly unlikely

I loved when he was asked how he knew and he said it just came to him from staring at the screen

https://youtu.be/dy1LTQLmPtM

Miserably is an understatement. Controlled environment and failed big time.

This is the biggest problem I think regardless of protocol choice. An uninformed public and inferior products. I remember bestbuy used to have zwave locks. Now the ones I see in stores are all geared towards nest or amazon. You have to buy zwave versions online

Post your actual program. When you run the "then" clause do you get a notification?

Both was years ago. Bestbuy still sells it online

I think everything should be put into perspective. Security is more important from a controller standpoint than locally at a switch or device. Due to the nature of zwave, security is more of a necessity than it is for insteon. Zwave is reliant on a controller whereas insteon is not. An insteon installation that runs without a controller is impossible to be hacked unless you are right outside the home. A person 3k miles away isn't hacking insteon devices. They are hacking the controller. With zwave, since a controller is needed for device control (many caveats here but most general setups and devices requires one) it is possible to hack the system. Even then, if we are real about it, a person still ends up hacking the controller rather than the devices unless they are close by All these IOT devices OTOH needs security since they are connected directly to the internet. Zwave's security is there to help people sleep at night while they leave their WiFi open or their phone number as the wifi password

I don't think they are going anywhere anytime soon nor do I care. I use them for light switches. I've probably said this 100 times, if they folded right now, my stuff would still work so why stress and worry about it. Enjoy what I have today and worry about the future tomorrow. I'll deal with them folding when the time comes to upgrade my home. The only thing it would mean is 1 less.option to consider

You can also upgrade to 5.0.16 to see if that fixes it

They've been doing that for at least the past year with the hub