ISY on Polisy v5.3.0 (IoP) - OUTDATED

[xlurkr]

2 hours ago, garybixler said:

Just one more thing. Temperature values aren't present on the ELK PG2 version but will be on the PG3 version.

Also, I think you'll lose the ability to control ISY lighting through the Elk (e.g. keypads, phone, etc.).  I'd like to be wrong about that, and it doesn't matter anyway if you're not doing so already.

-Tom

[garybixler]

Check out this link.  https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc-PG3/udi-poly-ELK/issues

[xlurkr]

Thanks, but I just think it's going to be complicated.  On the 994, you can export a list of your lights that the Elk can read in, and you're set, once you fill in the Elk details in the AC.  Both platforms listen to (or subscribe to, or whatever) each other and the lighting states keep in sync, and you can trigger rules on the Elk based on lighting events.  And this functionality doesn't require the Elk module; it's free and built in.

I'm not sure that exporting a list of lights is within the scope of what a NS can do, but if it is, maybe lighting support isn't so unlikely.  But then how high of a priority is it?  The lighting is already fully accessible in ISY, right?  So goes the logic.

Supporting Elk lighting is also a way to keep X10 alive.  

-Tom

[Michel Kohanim]

@xlurkr,

Exporting ELK lighting is a UI thing which we can support. We cannot support ELK in the firmware when there's already a full featured node server for it.

With kind regards,
Michel

[xlurkr]

16 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

We cannot support ELK in the firmware when there's already a full featured node server for it.

@Michel Kohanim I understand.  I sure hope "full featured node server" means lighting is supported.  As as of PG3 it probably won't be free anymore, but one can only mooch for so long, I guess.

I might keep a 994i going until Elk is fully baked on Polisy.  Which begs the question: what's the plan for anyone who wants a Polisy to control a 994i?  Nodeserver?  Who is going to create it? NRs?

-Tom

[bpwwer]

37 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

@Michel Kohanim Which begs the question: what's the plan for anyone who wants a Polisy to control a 994i?  Nodeserver?  Who is going to create it? NRs?

-Tom

Your question is unclear.  

There are no changes with how Polyglot interacts with an 994i vs. interacts with an ISY on Polisy.   It continues to work as it does today.

Over time, the various components will have their support end-of-lifed, but the components themselves should continue to work as is.

Eventually the 994i will stop getting firmware updates.  Polyglot version 2 is not likely to get any more feature updates. Node servers for PG2 will also likely stop getting feature updates and new node servers will likely be available for PG3 only.

[dbwarner5]

This Elk issue is pretty huge for me and until I understand the NS and what it can and cant do and the work involved to convert from my current Elk / Isy integration to a ISY / Polisy/ ELK NS set up,  my migration to isy/polisy is on hold indefinitely. Sad.

~160 programs with Elk address (Motion sensors, outputs for sprinklers, open/close modules etc)

~ Voice announcements through the Page out to a whole house sound system to alert of things like Driveway motion, garage doors open /shut, external heater on / off etc.

@Michel Kohanim

Currently a show-stopper. Hope the NS and migration can both become better. And yes, it is worth $ on PG3 to me, if it were to migrate seamlessly and continue to support Elk integration as the module did. 

[xlurkr]

2 hours ago, bpwwer said:

There are no changes with how Polyglot interacts with an 994i vs. interacts with an ISY on Polisy.   It continues to work as it does today.

How does ISY on Polisy interact with a 994i?  That's the question.  If I want to migrate everything over to Polisy, but leave Elk lighting running on a 994i, how could I interact with it?

-Tom

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, xlurkr said:

How does ISY on Polisy interact with a 994i?  That's the question.  If I want to migrate everything over to Polisy, but leave Elk lighting running on a 994i, how could I interact with it?

-Tom

For one way control you can install Network Resources to control variables, programs, scenes and devices on the other ISY box via it's REST interface. You require the IP address and the port number, and use the GET protocol style.

Variable substitution can also be used inside NRs inside any part of the URL sent, so one NR can be used for many devices, if desired.

You will need the NR package which can be subscribed for a very low cost per month/year. I purchased mine outright years ago and it has been the most useful tool to interface to non-Insteon devices and to my RPi software as a bridge to more WFi devices.

 

[xlurkr]

Thanks.  I'm aware it could be done this way, but I was really hoping to hear that support for a 994i would either be built in to ISY on Polisy, or that someone would create a NS.  Easy for me to say, but it shouldn't be very hard or risky, since the protocol is well known, and completely under UDI's control, as opposed to many other devices you might attempt to add to Polisy.  And such a NS would ease the transition to Polisy for those who want to add control but not disrupt anything in place.  In fact, I'd argue that UDI should write and maintain such a NS themselves.

-Tom

[larryllix]

7 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

Thanks.  I'm aware it could be done this way, but I was really hoping to hear that support for a 994i would either be built in to ISY on Polisy, or that someone would create a NS.  Easy for me to say, but it shouldn't be very hard or risky, since the protocol is well known, and completely under UDI's control, as opposed to many other devices you might attempt to add to Polisy.  And such a NS would ease the transition to Polisy for those who want to add control but not disrupt anything in place.  In fact, I'd argue that UDI should write and maintain such a NS themselves.

-Tom

There isn't much call for such a thing once ISY994 fades into the background and/or polisy migration slows down. The original crowd-sourced idea behind NSs was that users could create them themselves and have some input into where ISY was going.

[xlurkr]

31 minutes ago, larryllix said:

There isn't much call for such a thing once ISY994 fades into the background and/or polisy migration slows down.

Except for whatever capabilities/features UDI decides not to include in ISY on Polisy, and for which no simple and/or complete alternative exists.  That's why we're discussing Elk now.  Also, wouldn't this be the ideal solution to the "multi ISY/one interface" scenario asked for by those individuals who automate more than one property (assuming they can set up a VPN or secure port forwarding)?  I'm in that boat now, on a long-term remote work assignment.  An ISY NS would also support multiple Polisys at multiple locations now, and after the 994i is completely dead.  UDI ought to care about that.

 

32 minutes ago, larryllix said:

The original crowd-sourced idea behind NSs was that users could create them themselves and have some input into where ISY was going.

I'd be OK with someone in the crowd creating the NS I seek.  UDI certainly has demonstrated that they'll work with NS authors to get them whatever they need.

-Tom

[Javi]

1 hour ago, xlurkr said:

Except for whatever capabilities/features UDI decides not to include in ISY on Polisy, and for which no simple and/or complete alternative exists.  That's why we're discussing Elk now.  Also, wouldn't this be the ideal solution to the "multi ISY/one interface" scenario asked for by those individuals who automate more than one property (assuming they can set up a VPN or secure port forwarding)?  I'm in that boat now, on a long-term remote work assignment.  An ISY NS would also support multiple Polisys at multiple locations now, and after the 994i is completely dead.  UDI ought to care about that.

I think in time the Elk Node Server will be more capable than the current Elk Module, and is already in some areas. Also being decoupled from firmware allows for bug fixes and improvements at a faster pace.

UD Mobile currently supports multiple ISYs simultaneously, for viewing/controlling multiple ISY. UD Mobile also allows commands which can control multiple ISYs with a single button press. 

If nodes from one ISY are needed in another ISY the network resource solution works well for a few nodes. This should work with Portal/VPN/CERT  to get data from a remote ISY to a local ISY.

There are currently Node Servers, such as Hue, which subscribe to ISY. So, it is very possible to create a similar Node Server which subscribes to an ISY, even a remote ISY if using Portal/VPN/CERT. This would allow monitoring, control, and programs conditions for nodes from a separate ISY.

[dwengrovitz]

On 1/2/2022 at 3:28 PM, MWareman said:

Devices do not appear to have their status updated at all unless manually queried. 

I never could figure out why the devices (mainly my switches) would not update unless manually queried after migrating over to ISY on Polisy, but I ended up deleting and re-adding each switch individually, and refreshing/saving any programs that used them, and they are now updating automatically as expected.  

[MWareman]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:39 AM, Michel Kohanim said:

@xlurkr,

Exporting ELK lighting is a UI thing which we can support. We cannot support ELK in the firmware when there's already a full featured node server for it.

With kind regards,
Michel

AFAIK - It's not full featured quite yet. I extensively use the ISY to send spoken announcements thru the Elk's speaker for certain events - and I cannot find that function yet in the nodeserver. Do we know if this is planned? Certainly - the old firmware native premium Elk plugin supported this. 

Perhaps the newer PG3 version supports it - I don't know yet as I'm running the Elk nodeserver on PG2 until I know for sure the for-cost PG3 version is fully feature complete.

Michael.

[Michel Kohanim]

All,

As mentioned, we just cannot support ELK as native; it breaks so very many things that we have cleaned up and streamlined. We'll work with the developer and provide as much help and support to move important features into the node server.

With kind regards,
Michel

[Jimbo.Automates]

Hi All,

I do plan to add speech and lighting control to the ELK NS for PG3, but my first priority is getting all my NS"s converted to PG3.  So far 8 are done, and 3 more to go, and I have all 8 of them running on my production environment.  Hopefully will complete in the next couple weeks depending on my free time.  Then can start on enhancements and ELK is likely a priority.

As previously mentioned, I keep a list of all issues here:

https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc-PG3/udi-poly-ELK/issues

Anyone is free to request something that is not on this list.

- Jim

 

[dbwarner5]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Hi All,

I do plan to add speech and lighting control to the ELK NS for PG3, but my first priority is getting all my NS"s converted to PG3.  So far 8 are done, and 3 more to go, and I have all 8 of them running on my production environment. 

 

- Jim

 

@Jimbo@Michel Kohanim Thanks Jim!  As usual, I am sure you will do an awesome job with this! Voice is a critical part of my elk /isy /home set up.  

Am wondering two things:

-should I wait until PG3 is completed before I convert from isy to isy on Polisy to avoid two conversions of the ELK systems  --> ISY (with voice) to PG2 Isy on Polisy (w.o voice) to PG3 on Polisy (with voice) and

-secondly, with over 160 programs that utilize an Elk based input or output, why is going to be the easiest way to "map" the two systems (current to new) together to minimize the work. ie what happens when I convert.. do all my current programs just show the ////error line and there wont be any reference point as to what needs to be replacded, Will the Programs/FIND/Replace command work, etc.  

 

Just trying to get my head around this upcoming HUGE task.

thanks Doug

[hart2hart]

For large scale conversions, I always save all programs to a text file so I can use it to plan the conversion and as a reference point for during the update.

[Jimbo.Automates]

@Jimbo@Michel Kohanim Thanks Jim!  As usual, I am sure you will do an awesome job with this! Voice is a critical part of my elk /isy /home set up.  
Am wondering two things:
-should I wait until PG3 is completed before I convert from isy to isy on Polisy to avoid two conversions of the ELK systems  --> ISY (with voice) to PG2 Isy on Polisy (w.o voice) to PG3 on Polisy (with voice) and
-secondly, with over 160 programs that utilize an Elk based input or output, why is going to be the easiest way to "map" the two systems (current to new) together to minimize the work. ie what happens when I convert.. do all my current programs just show the ////error line and there wont be any reference point as to what needs to be replacded, Will the Programs/FIND/Replace command work, etc.  
 
Just trying to get my head around this upcoming HUGE task.
thanks Doug

Thanks. You can install PG3 now and have both while doing the conversion may make it easier.


Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[dbwarner5]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:47 PM, Jimbo said:

Thanks. You can install PG3 now and have both while doing the conversion may make it easier.


Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 

@Jimbo @einstein.42 @exking THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WORK ON THE ELK PG3 Nodeserver

I bit the bullet and did the conversion from 994i to Polisy with Elk being my biggest worry. WOW.. I am blown away at what a great job you guys did with this node server. 

Not a single problem! 

Cant wait for you to add the voice capability as that is the only missing link from my Elk / ISY system that I rely on that is missing now.

Cheers and glad I could now purchase the to recognize you.

[Jimbo.Automates]

1 hour ago, dbwarner5 said:

@Jimbo @einstein.42 @exking THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR WORK ON THE ELK PG3 Nodeserver

I bit the bullet and did the conversion from 994i to Polisy with Elk being my biggest worry. WOW.. I am blown away at what a great job you guys did with this node server. 

Not a single problem! 

Cant wait for you to add the voice capability as that is the only missing link from my Elk / ISY system that I rely on that is missing now.

Cheers and glad I could now purchase the to recognize you.

Thanks @dbwarner5 Appreciate the feedback. @einstein.42 is no longer involved, PG3 is now owned by @bpwwer who has done a ton of work to get it this far and close to production.

[asbril]

I don't know how, but my ISY on Polisy has gone back to admin/admin. Furthermore, when I click on Polisy Configuration (in Settings),  I get message " Please wait, getting configuration  " and it remains stuck on that message.

Furthermore,  ISY on Polisy now appears in my ISY Portal as not online and  Alias "Added to account during node server purchase "  is different from what it was before.

Edited January 11, 2022 by asbril

[larryllix]

4 hours ago, asbril said:

I don't know how, but my ISY on Polisy has gone back to admin/admin. Furthermore, when I click on Polisy Configuration (in Settings),  I get message " Please wait, getting configuration  " and it remains stuck on that message.

Furthermore,  ISY on Polisy now appears in my ISY Portal as not online and  Alias "Added to account during node server purchase "  is different from what it was before.

Sounds like some self-initiated factory reset almost.

Have you tried to just power cycle your polisy and retest?
How about your router dropping the IP reservation for your polisy?

Of course your Ethernet connections tight in their jax at both ends of the cables?

Edited January 11, 2022 by larryllix

[asbril]

1 hour ago, larryllix said:

Sounds like some self-initiated factory reset almost. Yes, most likely

Have you tried to just power cycle your polisy and retest? Yes. I deleted and re-added ISYonP in Portal, but now it is without ISY Portal license
How about your router dropping the IP reservation for your polisy? No

Of course your Ethernet connections tight in their jax at both ends of the cables? Not the issue

In PG3 I can still not access Polisy Settings (   Please wait, getting configuration...     ) and therefore  I can not set its username & password. I may have to restart PG3 in PutTy , though I forgot the sudo commands.