Mystery X10 codes - help to find source

[jim_]

My base build for years has been Insteon and few old X10 devices ... has been very reliable ...

Since Insteon switches are no longer available, I purchased a few Z-Wave switches complete a few more rooms. Took a while to get them stable, but things were good for a couple of weeks. Then all of a sudden, basic events like dusk programs tarted to randomly fail or switches show on, but not the actual light.  Been looking through logs and discovered hundreds mystery X10 codes appearing in the middle of the night and not related to my existing X10 units. None of my neighbours have X10 or Insteon devices, so codes must have their origin withing my home.

Not sure if these codes are related to these new random failures, but should still try to correct whatever is causing them.  I tried factory reset my PLM and restore. The list of codes has greatly reduced, but are still present ...

Any suggestions on what to check ?  Can these codes live in Insteon switches ?  Is there a way to pin point / trace source ?

Here a copy from last night of the codes found in LOG

X10    J2                 Mon 2022/01/31 02:45:56 AM    System    Log
X10    P    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 02:58:43 AM    System    Log
X10    J10                 Mon 2022/01/31 03:00:42 AM    System    Log
X10    B    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 03:09:12 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status = off (2)    Mon 2022/01/31 03:09:29 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 03:11:45 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Preset Dim (12)        Mon 2022/01/31 03:12:02 AM    System    Log
X10    H    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 03:46:21 AM    System    Log
X10    M15                 Mon 2022/01/31 04:02:48 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:13:35 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:26:21 AM    System    Log
X10    F    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:32:01 AM    System    Log
X10    J    On (3)            Mon 2022/01/31 04:39:58 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:43:39 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:43:57 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Preset Dim (12)        Mon 2022/01/31 04:46:47 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Extended Code (9)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:47:38 AM    System    Log
X10    J    Status Request (10)    Mon 2022/01/31 04:55:18 AM    System    Log

 

 

[Brian H]

Can they live in an Insteon module.  Maybe if they are the real early ones that also could have an X10 Primary address added to them.

Though I doubt it in this case. As the House Codes look random and not one programmed into a early module.

Anything new electronically or moved in the home?  Maybe some kind of electrical noise on the power lines being see as X10 messages.

House code J is a 1111 and Status Request is a 1111.

[jim_]

9 hours ago, Brian H said:

Can they live in an Insteon module.  Maybe if they are the real early ones that also could have an X10 Primary address added to them.

Though I doubt it in this case. As the House Codes look random and not one programmed into a early module.

Anything new electronically or moved in the home?  Maybe some kind of electrical noise on the power lines being see as X10 messages.

House code J is a 1111 and Status Request is a 1111.

List grew  last night to 336 X10 lines in the log starting at 1:30am and ending at 5:30am

*** if X10 codes can live on Insteon, shall I assume factory reset and reload will clear one by one ?

My oldest Insteon modules would be about 5 years old, nothing new in the home other than 6 x Z-Wave switches ... 

If electrical noise, one would expect to see these codes randomly at any time of day, but these only appear in the middle of the night ... odd

Do not understand what "House code J is a 1111 and Status Request is a 1111." means, please explain ?

[Brian H]

If the modules did not have an X10 code programmed into them. It may not be the problem. The later revision modules did not officially have an X10 capability. Though some still did.  That would be only one House Code and I see more than one House Code in your posted log entries.

I don't know if a factory reset and reloading would do anything. Is it possible to disable a module with the Air Gap switch if it is a Switchlinc and see if anything changes or unplug a module and see if anything changes. If you have a module that can be set to flash its LED on power line traffic. You may see it flashing when normally nothing is being controlled.

Do you know if anything is only running at those hours? Like some things are only run at night if their is a different power charges depending on time of day.

You didn't have a new Smart Electric Meter installed recently. Long shot as I know of one particular protocol that caused X10 strangeness. Most where just fine.

Sorry about the 1111 references. That would be all 1 bits in the X10 messages. I was thinking of power line noise looking like that

[jim_]

27 minutes ago, Brian H said:

If the modules did not have an X10 code programmed into them. It may not be the problem. The later revision modules did not officially have an X10 capability. Though some still did.  That would be only one House Code and I see more than one House Code in your posted log entries.

I don't know if a factory reset and reloading would do anything. Is it possible to disable a module with the Air Gap switch if it is a Switchlinc and see if anything changes or unplug a module and see if anything changes. If you have a module that can be set to flash its LED on power line traffic. You may see it flashing when normally nothing is being controlled.

Do you know if anything is only running at those hours? Like some things are only run at night if their is a different power charges depending on time of day.

You didn't have a new Smart Electric Meter installed recently. Long shot as I know of one particular protocol that caused X10 strangeness. Most where just fine.

Sorry about the 1111 references. That would be all 1 bits in the X10 messages. I was thinking of power line noise looking like that

Thanks for the response and clarifications ...

There is nothing running at that time of day, never has been. We've had a smart meter for at least 10 years (good thought), and back then I was running full X10 with no issues

I'll start by disconnecting some legacy X10 and resetting the Insteon switches that I recently changed programming on, then maybe disconnect the Z-Wave overnight then check the logs in the morning ... at least its a starting point

[Brian H]

One more tip that may help.

On the X10 forums. Jeff from JV Digital Engineering. Found a cheap Chinese cell phone charger. That emitted all kinds of noise to the power lines. On the exact 120KHz X10 power line signal frequency.

[jim_]

10 hours ago, Brian H said:

One more tip that may help.

On the X10 forums. Jeff from JV Digital Engineering. Found a cheap Chinese cell phone charger. That emitted all kinds of noise to the power lines. On the exact 120KHz X10 power line signal frequency.

Thank you for the tip ... I'll sweep the house for all chargers and any other unnecessary electrical appliances 

[jim_]

I searched for over a month for any electrical device causing these mystery X10 codes .... finally gave up after a month having shutdown circuit breaker by breaker trying to isolate ...

I needed to make an adjustment to a program and thought I would look at the logs tonight, and found the x10 codes stopped March 13,  AKA daylight savings ...

Since I have no X10 devices with any date control, I can only surmise this is related to ISY which does have date function ....  

Thoughts anyone ?

 

[Goose66]

Neighbors?

[mmb]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:27 PM, jim_ said:

Thank you for the tip ... I'll sweep the house for all chargers and any other unnecessary electrical appliances 

For me the X10s appeared in the ISY logs by hundreds at a time after I installed a new UPS.

I moved the ISY from my small server room to my office and things cleared up immediately, no more X10. 

All the X10 records had a time/date stamp.

[jim_]

Good thoughts ... but 

No neighbors have X10 or insteon  ... actual none have home automation ...

Same UPS for past 5 years and I did try connecting on standard power 

[garybixler]

Any grid based solar panels with Enphase micro inverters?

[larryllix]

When you test, ISY has to always be powered up so I would look more seriously at the circuit the PLM is on.

GDOs are known to be really bad, especially the Chamberlain models.

[jim_]

13 hours ago, larryllix said:

When you test, ISY has to always be powered up so I would look more seriously at the circuit the PLM is on.

GDOs are known to be really bad, especially the Chamberlain models.

GDOs ??? 

Chamberlain models ??? 

[jim_]

21 hours ago, garybixler said:

Any grid based solar panels with Enphase micro inverters?

Negative 

[larryllix]

54 minutes ago, jim_ said:

GDOs ??? 

Chamberlain models ??? 

Garage Door Openers.

Chamberlain makes most of the brands in North America

[jim_]

7 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Garage Door Openers.

Chamberlain makes most of the brands in North America

Thank You for explaining  ... My GDO (old tech) and Insteon controller has been installed for years

Since the codes were only showing up in the middle of the night, I would rule this out ... also, when I killed the power to the garage, the codes still appeared 

[larryllix]

11 hours ago, jim_ said:

Thank You for explaining  ... My GDO (old tech) and Insteon controller has been installed for years

Since the codes were only showing up in the middle of the night, I would rule this out ... also, when I killed the power to the garage, the codes still appeared 

Older may make it worse as components age. I have an old AC motor model and a DC motor unit with battery backup. The newer one kills my Insteon almost 100%. Turning the power off may not be a good test. They can still suck signals while plugged in.

[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Older may make it worse as components age. I have an old AC motor model and a DC motor unit with battery backup. The newer one kills my Insteon almost 100%. Turning the power off may not be a good test. They can still suck signals while plugged in.

He's not talking about the insteon signal being lost. He's troubleshooting why he's being flooded with X10 commands. With him killing power to the garage, the likelihood of his GDO emitting X10 commands with no power to it, is zero. 

@jim_ at this point, I'd factory reset each insteon switch and use restore & and write updates to  get them reconnected to the Isy. This way you clear out anything that may be in them. If it starts happening again, you could pull the set button on devices one room at a time (at night) to see which area is causing the problem (if its a device). Once you narrow down the room, you can do it individually at the device. 

[Athlon]

When I used X10 devices I learned they could pick up 'stray' signals from devices so long as those devices were on the same electrical transformer feeding my home.

Because the OP's 'sees' stray signals at nearly the same time each day - clearly something is running at that time - and it could very well be at a neighbor's home. 

Look for something you can see -  is there a new light on all night that wasn't on before this started happening? Can you ask your closest neighbor's if they have something new they are running with an electric motor in it? 

[larryllix]

Years ago I wrote a program to turn all on and all all off every 15 minutes , every day, and my neighbour problem went away. They must have changed house codes.

[Athlon]

3 minutes ago, larryllix said:

Years ago I wrote a program to turn all on and all all off every 15 minutes , every day, and my neighbour problem went away. They must have changed house codes.

?

[MrBill]

In the late 90's at a customer's we had neighbor problems... they all claimed to have no X-10... like @larryllix I ended up writing a program to find out which neighbor it was and try to figure out which house codes they were using, everytime we changed house codes there seemed to be new interferences... it turned out they didn't know the switches and remotes were X10 (and it was off branded X-10) and they were actually using 5 house codes for next to nothing.

[larryllix]

I watched at nights to see who had some light flashing on and off for a few weeks but finally gave up on co-operation.  After a a few days or weeks? I stopped and used that same house code again and never had a problem with it again.

...but I was nervous about using other X10 House codes then. I figured somebody switched away from my house code. IIRC I was getting an All House On commend though, likely some unlabelled X10 remote control.

It worked anyway..

[jim_]

3 hours ago, larryllix said:

I watched at nights to see who had some light flashing on and off for a few weeks but finally gave up on co-operation. 

I had to chuckle when I read this ... I pictured myself standing out on the street at 2am looking at the neighbors houses to see if lights were flashing 

I ran into similar problem with a new neighbors TV satellite, they were using UHF remote to change channels which would also change my SAT channel  ... Fortunately, it was easy to diagnose ... new neighbor, new SAT install ...