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asbril

By asbril
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asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
Posted (edited)

What Does Matter Mean for Building Devices, Business, and Brand?

May 24 | 11am CDT

 

https://www.silabs.com/about-us/events/what-does-the-matter-protocol-mean?source=Email&detail=Newsletter&cid=eml-ewr-mat-040422&mkt_tok=NjM0LVNMVS0zNzkAAAGETR8za4W-J-ad2yZMcUC9uyGUXIV_5Nvz1V-3i9zvoYct7Dk3u--7a-vxinL6VP3Dulqlnyag2cPLI7op0Y3uiKKBUc9_FlOLZSYbuSdghYoCakg

 

I have meetings at that time, but some of you may be able to attend and I'd love to get feedback.

Edited by asbril
lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, asbril said:

What Does Matter Mean for Building Devices, Business, and Brand?

May 24 | 11am CDT

 

https://www.silabs.com/about-us/events/what-does-the-matter-protocol-mean?source=Email&detail=Newsletter&cid=eml-ewr-mat-040422&mkt_tok=NjM0LVNMVS0zNzkAAAGETR8za4W-J-ad2yZMcUC9uyGUXIV_5Nvz1V-3i9zvoYct7Dk3u--7a-vxinL6VP3Dulqlnyag2cPLI7op0Y3uiKKBUc9_FlOLZSYbuSdghYoCakg

 

I have meetings at that time, but some of you may be able to attend and I'd love to get feedback.

I'll have to check that out. 

  • Like 1
auger66 Advanced

auger66

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, asbril said:

What Does Matter Mean for Building Devices, Business, and Brand?

May 24 | 11am CDT

 

https://www.silabs.com/about-us/events/what-does-the-matter-protocol-mean?source=Email&detail=Newsletter&cid=eml-ewr-mat-040422&mkt_tok=NjM0LVNMVS0zNzkAAAGETR8za4W-J-ad2yZMcUC9uyGUXIV_5Nvz1V-3i9zvoYct7Dk3u--7a-vxinL6VP3Dulqlnyag2cPLI7op0Y3uiKKBUc9_FlOLZSYbuSdghYoCakg

 

I have meetings at that time, but some of you may be able to attend and I'd love to get feedback.

The link to sign up on that page doesn't work for me.

elvisimprsntr Advanced

elvisimprsntr

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, asbril said:

Many thanks for this interesting document.

I haven't read any of the detailed Matter specifications, but seems to be very similar to HK.  Apple seems to have an advantage in that support for Matter is already baked into iOS 15 as a developer preview.  Not sure where Android and OEMs are in their Matter development and support.  The official Matter spec has been delayed again until at least fall '22

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2021/10298/

 

Edited by elvisimprsntr
  • 2 weeks later...
elvisimprsntr Advanced

elvisimprsntr

Posted
Posted (edited)

Anyone else on the Matter Zoom call?

 

 

I asked the following question.  Have not received a reply yet.

 

Quote

Many of us DIY’ers have gotten burned with a number of technologies that have been abandoned in the past.  Most recently, the sudden demise of Insteon.   Many of us now have obsolete and unsupported devices that were not inexpensive to install.  Does Matter have the ability to offer a bridge for those technologies that have been abdonded?   What gaurantees do consumers have that Matter is not going to be another abandoned platform leaving consumers left holding the bag again?

 

Edited by elvisimprsntr
  • Like 1
lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said:

Anyone else on the Matter Zoom call?

 

 

I asked the following question.  Have not received a reply yet.

 

 

I'm on the call. From what I'm hearing, I highly doubt there will be a bridge as it's up to the mfg. to support matter within their own device line. 

They really haven't cleared up anything with the call that hasn't already been spoken about. 

It does seem like the few companies involved are "all in" on matter so i doubt it'll simply be abandoned. My concern is with implementation since alot of the big claims that would make matter great are optional when it comes to company support. In time, they may tighten things up the way zwave has done but that remains to be seen

Edited by lilyoyo1
elvisimprsntr Advanced

elvisimprsntr

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2022 at 1:06 PM, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm on the call. From what I'm hearing, I highly doubt there will be a bridge as it's up to the mfg. to support matter within their own device line. 

They really haven't cleared up anything with the call that hasn't already been spoken about. 

It does seem like the few companies involved are "all in" on matter so i doubt it'll simply be abandoned. My concern is with implementation since alot of the big claims that would make matter great are optional when it comes to company support. In time, they may tighten things up the way zwave has done but that remains to be seen

I'm trying to find a technical comparison between Matter and HomeKit.    Seems Apple and others have already been doing a lot to implement all the of the things that Matter claims it will eventually be.  Still requires certification ($$$) and licensing ($$$) for manufacturers, which makes it not much different than HomeKit.  So is it truly an open source platform?   So instead of having one solidified standard, we simply have another standard.  

Apple was conveniently absent, which makes me think it's a complete waste of time for them.  "We have our [redacted] together.  Let us know when you do. Just don't steal any of our IP."

 

standards.png.d2d9fed294578bb2630be9f97751e382.png

Edited by elvisimprsntr
  • Like 1
oskrypuch Advanced

oskrypuch

Posted
Posted (edited)

To me it really appears to be a lot of noise, but little substance, and in future will likely reflect the xkcd cartoon upthread.

Notwithstanding the announcements, the big manufacturers (A,A,G) have a lot invested in keeping their own closed and controlled domains, harvesting consumer meta-data, while dangling carrots about future features but only with brand new devices to keep the sales going -- Matter may be useful in the later regard. Google hasn't even fully embraced the older Nest devices, after buying Nest out.

And, bottom line, Matter is an application layer that sits on top of IP. Given that these are portable devices, that means wifi. That is a crowded spectrum, and frankly even if segregated on vlans, I would not look forward to dozens of new IoT devices with their sloppy IP stacks and quickly dated firmware polluting my network. It is bad enough as it is now!

As far as Insteon and Matter, that is almost certainly a non-starter. There is no one to make the development investment.

* Orest (cynic)

Edited by oskrypuch
larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted (edited)

Anybody want to compare Matter with ZigBee? ZigBee has had standards committees and people working on standards for what.....?

....from Wikipedia..."Zigbee was conceived in 1998, standardized in 2003, and revised in 2006"

Look how many of us use ZigBee now. The manufacturers still can't make devices interchangeable between brands.

Edited by larryllix
elvisimprsntr Advanced

elvisimprsntr

Posted
Posted (edited)

At this point, I'm so disgusted with all the competing standards/technologies and all the competing companies agendas, that I am going to rip out all of my kit and set it on fire.  The amount of effort just to do that is what is holding me back.  

Edited by elvisimprsntr
  • Haha 1
lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said:

At this point, I'm so disgusted with all the competing standards/technologies and all the competing companies agendas, that I am going to rip out all of my kit and set it on fire.  The amount of effort just to do that is what is holding me back.  

Standards have never bothered me. I've always put my emphasis on my controller and focus on devices that work with that. The Isy has fit that bill for years and continue to do so as more technologies come out. I don't need access to all of them. Just devices that i need to accomplish what i want that are compatible with what i have. 

  • Like 3
Michel Kohanim Wise Elder

Michel Kohanim

Posted
Posted

@elvisimprsntr,

I think what you should ask yourself is: what exactly do I want from these devices? For instance, Lutron and Ring integrate pretty well (who cares how?). So do Alexa and blink and Ecobee (who cares how?), Google Home, HomeKit, etc. On the other hand, we have all these certified Z-Wave devices that do not universally respond to a scene. Also, as @larryllix suggested, none of the Zigbee devices are interoperable. Well, Hue is interoperable with itself and then you need networking for everything else. In addition, application level standards will require manufacturers to work really hard in distinguishing themselves from one another.  

So, for me, having more or less standards is completely immaterial. It's more about the ability to keep my investment and automation intact regardless of what comes next. Obviously, I am a geek/diyer and in minority. For majority of folks, Alexa, HomeKit, Google Home is sufficient. So, if there's a standard that allows devices to work with these 3 platforms, in and of itself, it's a good thing. Whether or not it materializes, well, your cartoon is the answer: it's a never ending cycle.

With kind regards,
Michel

  • Like 5
asbril Advanced

asbril

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I'm on the call. From what I'm hearing, I highly doubt there will be a bridge as it's up to the mfg. to support matter within their own device line. 

They really haven't cleared up anything with the call that hasn't already been spoken about. 

It does seem like the few companies involved are "all in" on matter so i doubt it'll simply be abandoned. My concern is with implementation since alot of the big claims that would make matter great are optional when it comes to company support. In time, they may tighten things up the way zwave has done but that remains to be seen

Thanks for your feedback on the Matter call. I had meetings this morning and could not attend. When it comes to my DIY home automation,  ISY is champagne for me and therefore I see the glass as half full rather than half empty.

Edited by asbril
lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, asbril said:

Thanks for your feedback on the Matter call. I had meetings this morning and could not attend. When it comes to my DIY home automation,  ISY is champagne for me and therefore I see the glass as half full rather than half empty.

You're welcome. You didn't miss much...really, it was a waste if you've been reading a lot about it. 

I agree wholeheartedly with you in regards to the Isy. To me, the isy already does what matter promises....just on a smaller level.

Overall, my take on matter is that it's for general consumption as a way to provide the masses with a way to easily integrate and provide some automation to their devices.

Because they leave the ecosystem entirely in the hands of the mfg. I don't see things being any different now except that you may not need individual apps to set up your devices anymore. Even then, i can see smaller players taking that route by simply providing devices that work with the big 3. Larger players will still want to build out their own ecosystems that can then be integrated. Only time will tell but that's my take

  • Like 1
larryllix Advanced

larryllix

Posted
Posted (edited)

We have seen this with many other "standard" protocols. When the standards committee writes into the spec a special sequence that allows manufacturers to accommodate their own special needs for their "different" hardware, then none of the "special" hardware is compatible with all the other manufacturers "special" hardware and the "standard" falls apart. Everything uses it's own breed of "special" so that window blinds can never communicate with water heaters, anyway.

Now, the design committees add every possible quirk they can add to the protocol and we have a protocol with a driver that becomes so huge, nobody wants to use it. Just look at what is happening with browsers. The webpage writers have to insert tonnes of special code to handle all the breeds of standardised browsers to the point that some just gave up and only support Chrome, or Edge, or FireFox, Chromium, or whatever.

To finish this off, just look how I spell standardised, colour, tonne, and programme.

Edited by larryllix
  • Like 1
asbril Advanced

asbril

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  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, Geddy said:

If you missed it (and wanted to see what you missed) you can watch it now from here -

https://www.silabs.com/support/training/what-does-the-matter-protocol-mean

 

Thanks. I listened to a big part of it. It was mostly technical. Now that UD has announced a new Zwave-Matter board, we will for sure exchange lots of information in this forum once the new board is available.

wmcneil Advanced

wmcneil

Posted
Posted
On 5/26/2022 at 11:34 AM, asbril said:

 Now that UD has announced a new Zwave-Matter board, we will for sure exchange lots of information in this forum once the new board is available.

I looked around the forum for more information about the referenced Zwave-Matter board, and could not find anything. Any links to existing thread(s) would be appreciated.

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