Next Gen Teaser

[Michel Kohanim]

@Teken,

The total number of ZigBee modules we sold is less than 200. That also includes 175 for multiple utility contracts that used RCS ZigBee thermostats. So, you amongst less than 25 customers who bought it on your own. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a financial drain.

If this is very important for you, you can ask Brultech to develop a node server. 

With regard to Nodelink, it depended on an old version of openssl.

With kind regards,

Michel

[RPerrault]

the best cable management is no cable management - hate working behind someone that has a ton of velcro and wire ties binding everything and i need to swap their mouse

if you don't have an equipment closet, you will need one - any isy is not something that should be seen - or network equipment - or nvr - or dvd - or cable boxes

because

the next generation from ud will be the visy - allowing me to boot it up on both my vm home servers mirroring each other - ready for a hot takeover - virtual isy is scheduled to be released spring 2023

some of the features to include (but not limited to)

- vulcan mind meld 2.0 - with the new no touch interface - don't waste that calorie - think your dishwasher into starting

- holographic control of the admin console featuring new and exciting color choices

- the long promised realization of the dream of smell-o-vision

- ability to monitor the fuel usage of your g700 and hopefully, remote start

- integration, monitoring and scheduling capabilities for your toto neorest toilet for heating, premisting, aroma control and flushing - save 1/4 cent by scheduling that flush for off-peak hours - new video feature to watch the progress on your iphone OR android devices - those precious captured moments can be shared with others realtime 

but no energy monitoring

i guess i don't know what that energy module thing is - but if its just telling me how much it cost to bake a cheesecake, i am going to bake it with or without the knowledge of knowing the energy consumed - a first world problem i don't have

 

[carealtor]

38 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

i guess i don't know what that energy module thing is - but if its just telling me how much it cost to bake a cheesecake, i am going to bake it with or without the knowledge of knowing the energy consumed - a first world problem i don't have

 

True Story

[Teken]

5 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@Teken,

The total number of ZigBee modules we sold is less than 200. That also includes 175 for multiple utility contracts that used RCS ZigBee thermostats. So, you amongst less than 25 customers who bought it on your own. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a financial drain.

If this is very important for you, you can ask Brultech to develop a node server. 

With regard to Nodelink, it depended on an old version of openssl.

With kind regards,

Michel

The problem is this has always been the horse or cart problem. If no one makes X how could there ever be anything to support X? When you have just the beginning of X but not a fully developed product this too leads to a lack of support and development.

Perhaps I am taking you too literally as you noted several times in the past and most recently here that Utilities are solid revenue stream and if things were to ever go south as it relates to Home Automation this is the fail over business plan?!? ?

This is where I'm having a hard time understanding how past and recent statements are contradicted by your statement Energy Management is a financial drain??? ? 

As it relates to Brultech its safe to say I've been at the forefront in pushing this company to Nth degree as it relates to their energy monitoring hardware. Ben & Paul have taken hundreds of my ideas and feature requests and 90% of them have been added or incorporated into their systems! ?

The end result is a box that does more than anything else in the world and leads the market in every facet.

Regardless of that fact, it doesn't change the need for UDI to actually invest more time and resources to something they freely marketed when entering this sector. 

Your team is small, the Brultech team is even smaller . . .

The fact these two people have been able to take on years of customer driven requests only limited by the hardware or software restrictions. Affirms they have already stepped up to the plate and more so.

I honestly fail to understand why the onus would fall on someone else to make something that could be developed much faster (Node Server) in house or at the very least provide them a quick road map to get a Node Server up and running without years of development???

To put a finer point on this, is the fact Brultech has added and incorporated no less than three methods to integrate with the ISY Series Controller.

Why???

Because I asked and pushed for the same . . .

This is and was the literal question of the horse or cart equation. They saw the big picture that someone had to step up and push the market and development of the same as it relates to energy monitoring / energy management. That translated into more brand awareness, more hardware sales, and community support.

That is literally the win win scenario any business person strives for.

   

Edited July 31, 2022 by Teken

[ISYhbsh01]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:35 PM, Michel Kohanim said:

@Samedarkclouds,

Wow ... quite a beautiful vent. I am honored and thank you so very much!

This new toy is the culmination of our disappointment with INSTEON and internal reflection. When I go to Costco (or Amazon) and can buy beautiful and gorgeous switches for less than $20 (WiFi), and when I see all the things I can do with Alexa/Google Home/HomeKit, then I wonder whether or not there's any room for UD. For instance, if Matter is as it's touted to be, and if Alexa/Google Home/HomeKit can integrate with it, and if you can do routines/triggers/schedules, why would you need eisy, HA, etc.? I would be putting my head in the sand if I do not question the value of something like eisy. Especially when it's so complex with an archaic Java interface.

The way I see it:

1. I do not think INSTEON is ever going to come back
2. I do not think Z-Wave is going to be there in the long run either. The reason: SiLabs owns Z-Wave. SiLabs is also one of the major sponsors for Matter. So, either Z-Wave is going to be Matterialized or it will slowly fade 
3. Simple use cases will be taken care of by inexpensive devices and simple apps (including Alexa/GH/HK)
4. More complicated use cases (such as energy) are either handled home energy management/automation systems (mostly because cloud dependence is not desired for energy)
5. Must be easy to use (eisy), commission, and configure (Admin Console/Java are bad. Yaml is great but not for the average user)
 

So, based on the aforementioned, we only have two opportunities:

1. Existing customers with Z-Wave, INSTEON/X10 who want to futureproof and/or migrate to something more modern
2. Complicated use cases such as energy management (for which we are literally masters)

And, based on the above, I decided to develop MatterZ and the very powerful eisy + @Javi is working making things easier with UD Mobile + templates for simple programs + @bpwwerhas pg3 in tip top shape, and @bmercier has developed services that can be used for Ring, @Chris is still in his dungeon solidifying Z-Wave and grappling with its monsters and critters. 

So, yes, I hope I will be your savior. Because, otherwise, UD will have to abandon the automation realm and concentrate on the utility's services.

With kind regards,
Michel

 

Hi Michel and everyone here,
 
I have been an ISY user since about 15 years ago. While I don’t have an ISY-26, I do have the ISY-99 still somewhere in a box. I have been a home automation enthusiast forever, though in recent years I am extremely busy with work & I hardly made any posts here on the forum. Still I have been following this forum closely ever since I got my first ISY. Currently I have in use two ISY-994’s plus one Polisy. Though I have only got to accomplish maybe 1% that’s on my automation to-do list ever since.
 
I will try to keep this short since I am literally stealing time from work now, where I have a million things to do. So now to my point:
 
I still remember the times when if anyone brought up a question on the forum, about if any specific old or new technology can be supported by the ISY, it was enough that this technology had anything to do with the cloud to get a big, out of the question, no. No matter how popular that technology was at the time, whether it was Nest, or many others that I don’t even remember. If it was cloud based it was a deal breaker.
 
As the years went by, and things like Amazon Alexa & Google Home came along, Michel slowly changed religion... Somehow the UDI portal was born. I remember how shocked I was when I first heard about it. This was really a 180 turn for UDI. Still the mantra was that UDI believes in local only. If, and only if there is a cloud based product where there is no other choice, UDI provides the option to be able to use that cloud based service.

Fast forward, and UDI came out with the revolutionary idea of node servers, Polyglot, Polyglot Cloud, and later Polisy. Again a major change in religion, where a lot of work went in to support many different cloud services. Still the mantra stayed the same, that UDI is a home automation company, not a remote control company, and that UDI supports local control first, and the cloud only when there is no other choice. So people have an option to also use cloud based services if they want to.
 
Along the years, every now & then, someone posted a thread about the ISY’s lack of a nice & simple GUI, and the use of Java. The answer to these posters always was, both from UDI, as well as from most of the ISY die hard users here, that UDI is a small company with limited resources, and the resources should rather be used to invest in improving functionality, i.e. polyglot, rather than wasting resources in making a fancy GUI. Some of those complaining about the lack of a nice GUI were saying, that with all the new WiFi based devices coming out a dime a dozen these days, all “supported by Alexa” with a nice little simple & stupid app to control those lights, if UDI is not going to develop a nice GUI to attract today’s generation, UDI will soon lose a lot of business & become irrelevant.
 
The answer to this time & again was always, that UDI does not & is not interested to cater to today’s young ADHD generation, where they buy 3-4 devices, get excited that they can show off how they can control it from their phones or talking to Alexa, and then after a few weeks forget all about it & move on to the next fad. UDI, the saying was, caters to the advanced crowd, who know better than just controlling a light from a phone. “We ISY’ers don’t do remote control, we do real automation” was the slogan. So we don’t care about having a nice GUI app, and we don’t care about all the stuff being marketed in the last 2-3 years to today’s generation. They are a totally different market that UDI is not interested in targeting.
 
I even remember once how surprised how was, when humble, down to earth, always calm Michel, finally once lost his patience with some naysayer like that, and responded how according to people like him, UDI was supposed to be out of business already 10 years ago but here they are still moving along.
 
Now I never got involved in these discussions, simply because I didn’t have the time to start posting. In addition we all love Michel, and are his die-hard fans, and for good reason, I don’t think there is another CEO of any company in the world like him. I think everyone here will agree with me on that. So when I saw how personal Michel took that, I wasn’t going to chime in. However in the back of my brain I was always thinking, of course I agree & want UDI to stay the course & stay the best & most advanced automation controller in the world. Still, wouldn’t it be nice if UDI can have the best of both worlds? Wouldn’t it be nice if UDI can do both? Develop some simple & stupid nice app with an easy to use setup, geared towards today’s short attention span generation, and be able to sell thousands of devices to the “cloud & remote control” crowd, but also have an advance mode for the old ISY user “automation” crowd? I thought that perhaps contrary to what was being said, UDI would be able to use the $$thousands in sales to the simple folks, to finance the development of what UDI really stands for. Now obviously I don’t run UDI & I don’t know if that would have been feasible, but that’s what I always felt would have been best for UDI’s success.
 
Fast forward to today, and I am shocked to read such a post from our beloved Michel. What happened? A change of religion again? All of a sudden you get scared of the $20 Wi-Fi Switches in Costco, and you don't see what ISY has more to offer? We know how much these devices are worth & how they compare to what we ISY’ers have been doing already for years. They don’t even come close! So please Michel, don’t get discouraged & carried away by all that garbage and don't give up. Now if you want to start heading in the direction that I was rooting for all along, to try to catch both fish at the same time. Cater to the app crowd but at the same time stay true to your roots of the advanced automation users, (which is what I think you were hinting at), that’s something else. That would be great. But please Michel, don’t change your religion on this one. Stay strong, you have a product that no one else does, don’t fall for the cheap stuff and abandon nothing. If anything, as I said, try to do both. Conquer the cheap stuff too, but don’t give up on the real good stuff that made you who you are.
 
I don’t know if I will be able to respond to any replies. In any case wishing Michel & UDI, as well as everyone here a lot of good luck.
 
 

Edited July 31, 2022 by ISYhbsh01

[upstatemike]

8 hours ago, Teken said:

@Michel Kohanim

I would love to know what the path and solution is for those of us who depend on the ISY Series Controller for energy & power management via the Brultech GEM??.

GEM talks to Homeseer. Homeseer talks to ISY/Polisy. There is always a way.

[lilyoyo1]

6 hours ago, Teken said:

The problem is this has always been the horse or cart problem. If no one makes X how could there ever be anything to support X? When you have just the beginning of X but not a fully developed product this too leads to a lack of support and development.

Perhaps I am taking you too literally as you noted several times in the past and most recently here that Utilities are solid revenue stream and if things were to ever go south as it relates to Home Automation this is the fail over business plan?!? ?

This is where I'm having a hard time understanding how past and recent statements are contradicted by your statement Energy Management is a financial drain??? ? 

As it relates to Brultech its safe to say I've been at the forefront in pushing this company to Nth degree as it relates to their energy monitoring hardware. Ben & Paul have taken hundreds of my ideas and feature requests and 90% of them have been added or incorporated into their systems! ?

The end result is a box that does more than anything else in the world and leads the market in every facet.

Regardless of that fact, it doesn't change the need for UDI to actually invest more time and resources to something they freely marketed when entering this sector. 

Your team is small, the Brultech team is even smaller . . .

The fact these two people have been able to take on years of customer driven requests only limited by the hardware or software restrictions. Affirms they have already stepped up to the plate and more so.

I honestly fail to understand why the onus would fall on someone else to make something that could be developed much faster (Node Server) in house or at the very least provide them a quick road map to get a Node Server up and running without years of development???

To put a finer point on this, is the fact Brultech has added and incorporated no less than three methods to integrate with the ISY Series Controller.

Why???

Because I asked and pushed for the same . . .

This is and was the literal question of the horse or cart equation. They saw the big picture that someone had to step up and push the market and development of the same as it relates to energy monitoring / energy management. That translated into more brand awareness, more hardware sales, and community support.

That is literally the win win scenario any business person strives for.

   

Just like other companies, UDI has stuff with utilities outside of the Isy itself. This is just one of their revenue streams. 

If after 10 years they've only sold a few hundred units of something, i would say it's less about the cart and horse and more about a lack of interest. I get that it's your interest and maybe within your world it interests others but that hasn't translated to UDI's Isy world. 

Most likely he's saying energy within the Isy realm is a financial drain. It's great that brultech was working with you to work with the isy. However, energy is their business and with multiple avenues of access- you should be covered. The fact that polisy has been out for 2 years now and only 1 person (you at this time) is saying something about it kind of confirms the lack of interest. 

[Teken]

Just like other companies, UDI has stuff with utilities outside of the Isy itself. This is just one of their revenue streams. 
If after 10 years they've only sold a few hundred units of something, i would say it's less about the cart and horse and more about a lack of interest. I get that it's your interest and maybe within your world it interests others but that hasn't translated to UDI's Isy world. 
Most likely he's saying energy within the Isy realm is a financial drain. It's great that brultech was working with you to work with the isy. However, energy is their business and with multiple avenues of access- you should be covered. The fact that polisy has been out for 2 years now and only 1 person (you at this time) is saying something about it kind of confirms the lack of interest. 

You know I love to argue with you. But you do make solid points on the topic at hand. As the other member noted UDI has done an about face on many things not on their road map which I could recite.

I won’t, because they have been listed up above and discussed many times in this forum.

This doesn’t change the fact others have already done their part to integrate with UDI hardware. At some point UDI must set aside the time and resources to do the same.

How did they ever get into the utility market without first investing the time to develop the energy module?!? That same underlying technology translated to those being able to connect a persons smart meter.

That later translated to ToU or whatever in fad name they call for power control.

It’s been ten long years with zero updates to this module or anything to do with energy management / energy control!

Every single person who has the ability to use a Z-Wave device that offers energy readings came off the back of the original module I’m talking about.

The fact is, if a customer has to sell a company a basic concept so X can become greater than its now.

That’s a problem!

I’ve never had to sell or pull teeth with Brultech with anything. Besides making a business case as to how it would benefit their hardware, customer base, and ultimately translating to more sales.

I did so because that’s the way I am. Not because they asked me to!

That can’t be said for the current (Polisy) hardware that literally has everything yet can’t use 50% of the I/O!

This new box is going to offer more?? Oh yeah, how? is anyone ever going to use any of that new hardware??? Are we all going to have to sit around for 5-10-25 years to see actual use of BLE??

WiFi??

RS-232???

Extra RJ45 ports???

[Michel Kohanim]

@Teken,

Utterly presumptuous: Our utility contracts have absolutely nothing to do with circuit level energy monitoring. Absolutely nothing nothing nothing nothing. They never ever did. NEVER. To the extent that we have to, it's at the house level and it's through Utility installed Smart Meters. But, even that, constitutes less than 5% of our utility projects.

If there's enough interest for your project, I am certain node server developers will develop. 

With kind regards,

Michel

[tazman]

29 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

If there's enough interest for your project, I am certain node server developers will develop. 

With kind regards,

Michel

I think you mean if a developer is interested.  Otherwise how many people do we have to get interested to have a node server created?

[Michel Kohanim]

@tazman, 

I think it's the same. But, there are node servers that we believe are important such as Lutron so we sponsored its development because one didn't exist. 

With kind regards,

Michel

[xlurkr]

5 hours ago, Michel Kohanim said:

 

...there are node servers that we believe are important such as Lutron so we sponsored its development because one didn't exist. 

With kind regards,

Michel

Is this an existing one, or one still in development?  RA3?  RA2?  Caseta?

-Tom

[Athlon]

52 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

Is this an existing one, or one still in development?  RA3?  RA2?  Caseta?

https://github.com/BME-node servers/docs/blob/master/udi-caseta-poly.md

 

[lilyoyo1]

7 hours ago, Teken said:

You know I love to argue with you. But you do make solid points on the topic at hand. As the other member noted UDI has done an about face on many things not on their road map which I could recite.

I won’t, because they have been listed up above and discussed many times in this forum.

This doesn’t change the fact others have already done their part to integrate with UDI hardware. At some point UDI must set aside the time and resources to do the same.

How did they ever get into the utility market without first investing the time to develop the energy module?!? That same underlying technology translated to those being able to connect a persons smart meter.

That later translated to ToU or whatever in fad name they call for power control.

It’s been ten long years with zero updates to this module or anything to do with energy management / energy control!

Every single person who has the ability to use a Z-Wave device that offers energy readings came off the back of the original module I’m talking about.

The fact is, if a customer has to sell a company a basic concept so X can become greater than its now.

That’s a problem!

I’ve never had to sell or pull teeth with Brultech with anything. Besides making a business case as to how it would benefit their hardware, customer base, and ultimately translating to more sales.

I did so because that’s the way I am. Not because they asked me to!

That can’t be said for the current (Polisy) hardware that literally has everything yet can’t use 50% of the I/O!

This new box is going to offer more?? Oh yeah, how? is anyone ever going to use any of that new hardware??? Are we all going to have to sit around for 5-10-25 years to see actual use of BLE??

WiFi??

RS-232???

Extra RJ45 ports???

UDI has made an about face on things due to customer DEMAND (keyword). Without Google/Alexa they probably wouldn't be here now. While i don't need the app (nor am I a fan of it), there was a demand for it. A large number of debates about it has disappeared since it's creation. 

To stay relevant in business they have to adapt which sometimes means going against your ideals. I do it often myself. That's why I'll install ring cameras/doorbells and I'll use nest thermostats. It goes to why i don't install elk anymore. While i have zero interest in installing insteon ever again, if they somehow took over- I'd flip and use them for everything. We all have done an about face on something to stay relevant. However, the core beliefs can stay the same and play a part in our decision making.  

We've gone back and forth for ages over energy. As you can see from the lack of engagement, energy isn't important to users of this forum. With you being the only one clamoring for it, can you honestly say it's worth UDIs time and energy(pun intended)? Not once have i had a client ask about energy management in any capacity. I'd be wasting my time investing in it in hopes of more sales that simply won't come. The few people I've talked to about it (after our debates) generally has the same response as me.  They don't care about it. They know if something is on their using energy. It they want to stop, they'll turn it off. They don't need to pay to know about that info.

 

[Teken]

UDI has made an about face on things due to customer DEMAND (keyword). Without Google/Alexa they probably wouldn't be here now. While i don't need the app (nor am I a fan of it), there was a demand for it. A large number of debates about it has disappeared since it's creation. 
To stay relevant in business they have to adapt which sometimes means going against your ideals. I do it often myself. That's why I'll install ring cameras/doorbells and I'll use nest thermostats. It goes to why i don't install elk anymore. While i have zero interest in installing insteon ever again, if they somehow took over- I'd flip and use them for everything. We all have done an about face on something to stay relevant. However, the core beliefs can stay the same and play a part in our decision making.  
We've gone back and forth for ages over energy. As you can see from the lack of engagement, energy isn't important to users of this forum. With you being the only one clamoring for it, can you honestly say it's worth UDIs time and energy(pun intended)? Not once have i had a client ask about energy management in any capacity. I'd be wasting my time investing in it in hopes of more sales that simply won't come. The few people I've talked to about it (after our debates) generally has the same response as me.  They don't care about it. They know if something is on their using energy. It they want to stop, they'll turn it off. They don't need to pay to know about that info.
 

Good points but I’ll remind you almost everything we do as a group is a niche product / want.

Some of these things based on scale are obviously larger than others. One only needs to look at the current list of Node Servers to prove this point.

99% of these Node servers are so unique and specific they amount to 0.00000001% of the want / customer use base.

The argument is there were hundreds if not tens of thousands of people who pounded on the table or verbally on this forum for these:

YoLink, Purple Air, the list is endless . . .

They exist because the person interested in Node Servers used their skills to simply do it! It literally was based on a single voice and boom it was done!

In other cases it was just a matter of adaptation existing code to support a similar API frame work think weather.

It’s safe to state Bob is and has lead the way in offering dozens of Node Servers not just because there was huge demand simply because he could and was asked!

Simplex, is another awesome member and many others too who simply were approached by a SINGLE person not hundreds not millions and boom!

That Node server exits today . . .

As it relates to the energy module besides me pushing for it to be some what baked. It’s been shelved for ten years and hasn’t seen any updates to keep up with the times or NEEDS.

You point is demand and need.

My point is if you don’t fulfil that need how will the demand ever go up or increase??? If energy monitoring wasn’t gaining speed and traction there wouldn’t be ten times the amount of vendors offering and supporting the same.

As it relates to this new Eisy box my questions still stand. When are we or anyone ever going to see any of these boxes have the ability to use any of the new I/O???

Oh, let me sit down and state the obvious!!!

Never . . .

And will affirm the words of Michel until *Someone* decides to make a Node Server!

That’s f^cken ridiculous!

Again, this is the whole horse and cart problem. At some point a company / the company must do and support the same. It’s not enough to just throw out a box with ports and I/O and say it’s up to the public to make X!

This is exactly why HA is kicking everyone’s *** and taking names! You literally have a open source project that has a box that literally can connect and operate any of the industry protocols: Wi-Fi, ZigBee, Z-Wave, Insteon, BLE, Ethernet, LoRa, the list is endless.

Absolutely ridiculous . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

@Teken,

No one is forcing you to wait for anything. And no one is preventing you from using HA or anything else. It seems that you know it all so, rather than wasting your time with essays, go get your energy needs implemented. You're are certainly capable. 

With regard to WiFi and BLE and Bluetooth, I am currently using all.

With kind regards,

Michel

 

[garybixler]

Can't wait for the new EISY unit to be available. Just wondering what the HDMI ports will be used for.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, Teken said:

Good points but I’ll remind you almost everything we do as a group is a niche product / want.

Some of these things based on scale are obviously larger than others. One only needs to look at the current list of Node Servers to prove this point.

99% of these Node servers are so unique and specific they amount to 0.00000001% of the want / customer use base.

The argument is there were hundreds if not tens of thousands of people who pounded on the table or verbally on this forum for these:

YoLink, Purple Air, the list is endless . . .

They exist because the person interested in Node Servers used their skills to simply do it! It literally was based on a single voice and boom it was done!

In other cases it was just a matter of adaptation existing code to support a similar API frame work think weather.

It’s safe to state Bob is and has lead the way in offering dozens of Node Servers not just because there was huge demand simply because he could and was asked!

Simplex, is another awesome member and many others too who simply were approached by a SINGLE person not hundreds not millions and boom!

That Node server exits today . . .

As it relates to the energy module besides me pushing for it to be some what baked. It’s been shelved for ten years and hasn’t seen any updates to keep up with the times or NEEDS.

You point is demand and need.

My point is if you don’t fulfil that need how will the demand ever go up or increase??? If energy monitoring wasn’t gaining speed and traction there wouldn’t be ten times the amount of vendors offering and supporting the same.

As it relates to this new Eisy box my questions still stand. When are we or anyone ever going to see any of these boxes have the ability to use any of the new I/O???

Oh, let me sit down and state the obvious!!!

Never . . .

And will affirm the words of Michel until *Someone* decides to make a Node Server!

That’s f^cken ridiculous!

Again, this is the whole horse and cart problem. At some point a company / the company must do and support the same. It’s not enough to just throw out a box with ports and I/O and say it’s up to the public to make X!

This is exactly why HA is kicking everyone’s *** and taking names! You literally have a open source project that has a box that literally can connect and operate any of the industry protocols: Wi-Fi, ZigBee, Z-Wave, Insteon, BLE, Ethernet, LoRa, the list is endless.

Absolutely ridiculous . . .

Those are individuals developing something on their own volition vs UDI taking time away from other projects to rehash something that was done once and not used based on the needs of 1 person. 

Comparing a free product (HA) vs UDI (paid) is comparing apples to oranges. HA is open source and free. I'd be the biggest installer here if i were free. HA doesn't have to worry about investors, salaries, taxes, or keeping the lights on. 

You're harping on Michel stating "until someone creates a node server" but celebrate a system where independent developers are literally doing the same thing for that system. Why is it ok for them but not UDI?

There are energy devices out there but that doesn't necessarily translate to UDIs world. It's about knowing your clientele. 

For example, I'm not certified for installing lutron shades. I subcontract that out. Why? Because I don't install enough of them to warrant the cost or time investment. Does that mean shades aren't a growing segment or many people don't have or use them? No it doesn't. It simply means it's something that my clients (up to this point) aren't interested in. Should that ever change, I'd be willing to invest as I'm sure UDI will be willing to do as well. 

UDI adding Io ports, HDMI, etc to the new box is ok whether or not there's a plan for it. That's integrated hardware that allows for something to be down if there's a need in addition to historical demand for it (Io). If it wasn't there, you'd complain- but now complaining because it is. You can't have it both ways.

[Michel Kohanim]

29 minutes ago, garybixler said:

Can't wait for the new EISY unit to be available. Just wondering what the HDMI ports will be used for.

Still thinking about HDMI ports. Currently I use them to have 4k videos and music in the background while working.

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

26 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

@Teken,

No one is forcing you to wait for anything. And no one is preventing you from using HA or anything else. It seems that you know it all so, rather than wasting your time with essays, go get your energy needs implemented. You're are certainly capable. 

With regard to WiFi and BLE and Bluetooth, I am currently using all.

With kind regards,

Michel

 

If you're as you say IS / CAN the general public use the same (BLE, WiFi, Blue Tooth??? What market devices are being sold and adopted by the masses are you using on any of these boxes that WE the people can connect and use???

I know my presence on the forums hasn't been full time so may have missed this latest adoption and integration! ?

Lets be specific here when I say it connects at what level??? I don't mean the ability to connect my LAN to the X / Y box via WiFi! I mean does the current offering provide the ability to connect to a WiFi enabled device whatever it is???

BLE . . . 

There are hundreds of BLE / Blue Tooth sensors out today what are the sensors your X / Y box connects natively without a Node Server??? Or if one is required which one is it??

Would love to know the secret sauce as to what these three protocols are using NOW as you state???

 

[Athlon]

4 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Still thinking about HDMI ports. Currently I use them to have 4k videos and music in the background while working.

With kind regards,

Michel

[upstatemike]

8 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Still thinking about HDMI ports. Currently I use them to have 4k videos and music in the background while working.

With kind regards,

Michel

How about video out to a status screen with audio used for local TTS announcements? I don't have much need for touch screen solutions but am always looking for an easy way to monitor some critical things and get alerts to critical situations.

[Teken]

7 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Those are individuals developing something on their own volition vs UDI taking time away from other projects to rehash something that was done once and not used based on the needs of 1 person. 

Comparing a free product (HA) vs UDI (paid) is comparing apples to oranges. HA is open source and free. I'd be the biggest installer here if i were free. HA doesn't have to worry about investors, salaries, taxes, or keeping the lights on. 

You're harping on Michel stating "until someone creates a node server" but celebrate a system where independent developers are literally doing the same thing for that system. Why is it ok for them but not UDI?

There are energy devices out there but that doesn't necessarily translate to UDIs world. It's about knowing your clientele. 

For example, I'm not certified for installing lutron shades. I subcontract that out. Why? Because I don't install enough of them to warrant the cost or time investment. Does that mean shades aren't a growing segment or many people don't have or use them? No it doesn't. It simply means it's something that my clients (up to this point) aren't interested in. Should that ever change, I'd be willing to invest as I'm sure UDI will be willing to do as well. 

UDI adding Io ports, HDMI, etc to the new box is ok whether or not there's a plan for it. That's integrated hardware that allows for something to be down if there's a need in addition to historical demand for it (Io). If it wasn't there, you'd complain- but now complaining because it is. You can't have it both ways.

I've never complained about having more I/O only wanting more. ? Regardless , of that the facts remain there isn't anything I've seen on Polisy that allows a WiFi device to be connected. I haven't seen BLE / Blue Tooth used or integrated with any of the boxes that allows a connection to the latest market leader devices.

While your comparison about supporting blinds have some merit. It only goes so far as being just another service you may, could, should provide. 

The Energy Management wasn't just some after thought even though at this juncture it literally is a afterthought and left to die. It was a purposeful decision to enter a market segment that had revenue and growth potential.

It doesn't matter what label people want to use the on the Energy X. It's built on the past development and experience of the same!

As you clearly stated regarding the whole smart application . . .

A whole lot of people did you read that right??? A whole lot of people asked for the same and it never came to be for a decade. Than, boom one day its about face and now everyone is enjoying something that should have existed ten years ago!

You see the irony here Michel and you are stating there isn't a need as there was for the Smart phone app when there clearly was! It was the refusal to do so yet there was hundreds if not thousands pounding on the table for it???

This isn't about if there's a demand in the purest form . . .

This is about iterating and making something better than it was and isn't keeping up with the times! As you clearly stated any fool can read the thousands of threads where the cloud was NEVER ever going to be adopted it didn't matter what it was.

Booom, as you said all manner of voice support . . .

The list of about face and change in direction and investment of time and resources even for things that make absolutely no sense are present now!

I shouldn't have to convince anyone about energy management / energy control when I literally brought 90% of the people to the table! Those are sales that were never ever going to be had or seen. 

 

[jec6613]

14 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Still thinking about HDMI ports. Currently I use them to have 4k videos and music in the background while working.

With kind regards,

Michel

I'd love it if it could be used to pipe output from Blue Iris, or just have some sort of dashboard with a 10' UI or touch screen UI.  The Niles touch screens I've put in have met with a ton of spousal approval.

A lot of options, but all require a lot of work.

[lilyoyo1]

8 minutes ago, Teken said:

I've never complained about having more I/O only wanting more. ? Regardless , of that the facts remain there isn't anything I've seen on Polisy that allows a WiFi device to be connected. I haven't seen BLE / Blue Tooth used or integrated with any of the boxes that allows a connection to the latest market leader devices.

While your comparison about supporting blinds have some merit. It only goes so far as being just another service you may, could, should provide. 

The Energy Management wasn't just some after thought even though at this juncture it literally is a afterthought and left to die. It was a purposeful decision to enter a market segment that had revenue and growth potential.

It doesn't matter what label people want to use the on the Energy X. It's built on the past development and experience of the same!

As you clearly stated regarding the whole smart application . . .

A whole lot of people did you read that right??? A whole lot of people asked for the same and it never came to be for a decade. Than, boom one day its about face and now everyone is enjoying something that should have existed ten years ago!

You see the irony here Michel and you are stating there isn't a need as there was for the Smart phone app when there clearly was! It was the refusal to do so yet there was hundreds if not thousands pounding on the table for it???

This isn't about if there's a demand in the purest form . . .

This is about iterating and making something better than it was and isn't keeping up with the times! As you clearly stated any fool can read the thousands of threads where the cloud was NEVER ever going to be adopted it didn't matter what it was.

Booom, as you said all manner of voice support . . .

The list of about face and change in direction and investment of time and resources even for things that make absolutely no sense are present now!

I shouldn't have to convince anyone about energy management / energy control when I literally brought 90% of the people to the table! Those are sales that were never ever going to be had or seen. 

 

At least with the app, there was demand....A LOUD demand. While i understand UDIs decision early on to avoid it since other apps filled the gap. As UDI brought new capabilities to the equation and those apps didn't keep up, they did what needed to be done since the chorus sung louder than ever before. 

Once again- they created a solution and the demand never came. The silence in support of you is deafening. No single other person has chimed in to support your argument. We have people asking about the HDMI, BLE, WiFi, etc but no energy management ?. 

I may, could, and should provide support for blinds but at what cost? In addition to the course, I'd have to hire at least 1 person to handle that. Because of covid, time off, etc. that means 2. 

Since I've gotten into this business, I've done less than a dozen. Is it really worth it to add that expense? It's cheaper and easier for me to sub-contract it, add my 20%, and call it a day. As i said before, should something change and clients want more, I'm more than willing to invest. Now, just isn't the time. The same applies for UDI. To design a module, contract with a factory to make it, storage, etc- is it really worth it? You're talking about 1000s of dollars from start to finish over 1 person. They can create a Node server to use existing devices (I believe their are some in their now) so that's an option as well. If Your chosen brultech device has an API, what's so hard about working with someone to see if they're willing to creat one? If hardware is required by udi- you can bring 90% of the people to the table but if that 90% only amounts to 9 or 10 devices, how's it financially responsible?