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Water shut off valve recommendations

Jimbo.Automates

By Jimbo.Automates
in Coffee Shop

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Jimbo.Automates Advanced

Jimbo.Automates

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I currently use Zooz Z-Wave Water Valve Actuator on some of my water ball valves.  Now I'm getting all the plumbing changed and considering a full Z-Wave, Zigbee or WiFi ball valve, even possibly Phyn or Moen Flo.  I've done a little research on all, but still leaning towards keeping manual valves with the Zooz since they are easy to override when necessary, and replace when they go bad.  I already have a Z-Wave flow meter installed so Phyn/Moen are not really necessary.  Just wondering if anyone else has recommendations.

 

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TheA2Z Advanced

TheA2Z

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@Jimbo.Automates  I bought one of these in 2019 and its been solid.  Always works.  Previous to this I had a dome water cutoff but it did not have the power to turn off my ball valve.  This bulldog has no problem with it.  It doesnt require and specialty plumbing and goes right over valve.

Here is amazon link: EcoNet Controls EVC200-HCSML The Bulldog Valve Robot, Z-Wave Water Valve, Smart Home Controller Required, Easy to Install and No Plumbing Required, Valves up to 1.5" - Amazon.com

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Jimbo.Automates Advanced

Jimbo.Automates

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@Jimbo.Automates  I bought one of these in 2019 and its been solid.  Always works.  Previous to this I had a dome water cutoff but it did not have the power to turn off my ball valve.  This bulldog has no problem with it.  It doesnt require and specialty plumbing and goes right over valve.
Here is amazon link: EcoNet Controls EVC200-HCSML The Bulldog Valve Robot, Z-Wave Water Valve, Smart Home Controller Required, Easy to Install and No Plumbing Required, Valves up to 1.5" - Amazon.com


Thanks, I had a dome as well and it quit working after a year or so in the direct Arizona sun. Everything is moving inside a new garage now so weather is not a problem. I'll consider the bulldog.

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brians Advanced

brians

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I bought a z-wave Watercop 5 years ago and was real cheap like around $98 CAD. But now they seem very expensive for some reason. I would stick with what you have though, I would probably pick that Titan if I was to do it again today.

Anyways, it has saved me a few times. I have leak sensors setup so if my septic lift pump fails it will turn off the water main instantly... just this past weekend it triggered (while wife was having a shower LOL) and there was an issue with the AC float switch that controls the pump, that I repaired. If it had failed, would have been a mess (which happened years ago, and is why I have done this).  I think over the years, it has saved me about 4 or 5 times.

I also have a float switch I was going to install inside the tank so would catch this before the tank overlows, but I haven't got around to do that and have to figure out a mount for it etc.... so far the leak sensors seems to work fine - one which sits on top of the tank... just a little bit of water was on the top this last time, and another drain location other side of  house had a tiny bit of water pop up. If someone was draining our large tub and the pump system failed coincidentally at that time, then there will be a tub's worth of water coming out at the most... but the odds of that happening are probably slim, but it would be cleaner water at least ;)

 

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DennisC Advanced

DennisC

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12 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

How about Elk?  I've never used it, but I'm considering it to replace my current Z-Wave valve.

https://www.elkproducts.com/product/water-shutoff-valve-wsv2/

 

12 hours ago, Jimbo.Automates said:

I was considering that, but would have to be wireless, which I guess it can be, and provide open/close feedback to elk. Will contact Elk support. Thanks.

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I use the Elk shutoff valve at two different locations and have for about 5 or 6 years. The valve works great and I have had no issues with it.

However, the valve is expensive.

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Jimbo.Automates Advanced

Jimbo.Automates

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I use the Elk shutoff valve at two different locations and have for about 5 or 6 years. The valve works great and I have had no issues with it.
However, the valve is expensive.
Thanks. Are they wired or wireless? And do they provide open/close status back to the Elk? Can they be manually changed if no electricity?

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DennisC Advanced

DennisC

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7 hours ago, Jimbo.Automates said:

Thanks. Are they wired or wireless? And do they provide open/close status back to the Elk? Can they be manually changed if no electricity?

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The version I have is wired and report status back to Elk, as long has it is wired correctly.

There is a manual operated handle also.

There is a newer version that can be used wirelessly, but I don't know the details.

 

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apostolakisl Advanced

apostolakisl

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On 9/13/2023 at 8:43 AM, Jimbo.Automates said:

I was considering that, but would have to be wireless, which I guess it can be, and provide open/close feedback to elk. Will contact Elk support. Thanks.

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I have a couple of the Elk valves and they are both a decade plus in service and no issues.  Of course they are hard wired only, so you would need to use somethin like an IO link to remotely connect them to your home automation.  I have mine hard wired directly to my alarm panels which makes it about as fail proof as possible.  I also use these valves every day.  When I arm my alarm to away mode (both at home and office), after a 45 minute delay to allow for appliances to finish, it shuts the valve.  Also, I have water sensors located all around directly connected to my alarm panel which if tripped will immediately shut the water off.  In short, my Elk valves run sometimes multiple times per day for a decade or more and continue to work.  Also, by using the valves every day, you know they work.  Both valves are within ear shot of where I disarm the alarm and can hear them turn on.  Also, I can hear a little bit of water flow confirming it was actually off.  Sometimes the dishwasher or washing machine had more than 45 minutes to go.  The washer will report a no flow error in the event also confirming water was actually off.

Edited by apostolakisl
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DennisC Advanced

DennisC

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27 minutes ago, apostolakisl said:

Of course they are hard wired only, so you would need to use somethin like an IO link to remotely connect them to your home automation. 

If you have an Elk alarm system and the Elk node server, you don't need anything else. No IO Linc would be required.

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bob123 Member

bob123

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Greenfield is actually the source for the ELk valves and is a little cheaper.  The greenfield valve is also wired a little differently and makes it easier to use without an ELK alarm. 
 

I use the Greenfield valve in 3 separate installations without an ElK alarm.  i don’t use an iolink or zwave mimolite as I don’t trust the reliability.

I use either an insteon or zwave outlet/plug to control it in combination with a relay to switch the low voltage required to open/close the valve. 
 

The relay I use is

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017743I7S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

I plug the relay into the controlled outlet and the low voltage control wire for the outlet on the output of the relay.  
 

The valve also supports a status feedback connection in case you want validation of valve status. I connect that to the external contacts of a zwave sensor.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HGVJRX2?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


Very reliable. 

 

 


 

 

 

 

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apostolakisl Advanced

apostolakisl

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1 hour ago, Jimbo.Automates said:

Thanks, sadly we didn't run any extra wires into the garage when we tore apart the house to run the wiring before the remodel.

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At least with the Elk valve then, you would need an iolinc or comparable to add it to your HA system.  Unfortunately, no wireless system can live up to the failsafe standards of hardwired, but it is better than nothing.  Hopefully you do have access to 120vac at the location or you would then also have to contend with battery maintenance and another potential point of failure.  The thing with water valves is you mostly never need them. . . except when you need them and then you really need them.

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apostolakisl Advanced

apostolakisl

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15 minutes ago, bob123 said:

Greenfield is actually the source for the ELk valves and is a little cheaper.  The greenfield valve is also wired a little differently and makes it easier to use without an ELK alarm. 
 

I use the Greenfield valve in 3 separate installations without an ElK alarm.  i don’t use an iolink or zwave mimolite as I don’t trust the reliability.

I use either an insteon or zwave outlet/plug to control it in combination with a relay to switch the low voltage required to open/close the valve. 
 

The relay I use is

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B017743I7S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

I plug the relay into the controlled outlet and the low voltage control wire for the outlet on the output of the relay.  
 

The valve also supports a status feedback connection in case you want validation of valve status. I connect that to the external contacts of a zwave sensor.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HGVJRX2?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


Very reliable. 

 

 


 

 

 

 

An iolinc can both control the valve and monitor that the valve properly actuated all in one package.  Assuming you use ISY to control the iolinc, you can write a program that checks that the valve physically changed each time it commands the valve to actuate.  Should it fail, ISY can notify you. 

I would suggest that you actuate the valve on a regular basis to confirm it is operating.  As I mentioned, my valve is actuated each time I arm my alarm system so the valve is regularly exercised and proper operation is confirmed.

EDIT: I just pulled up the wsv instructions.  The green status wire is 12v, so to use it with an iolinc you would need it to power a relay which the iolinc monitors via its 5v system.

Edited by apostolakisl
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auger66 Advanced

auger66

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I put this Rube Goldberg-ish package in a year ago at a remote location. It doesn't really meet the OP's requirements, though.

https://innovativehomesys.com/collections/insteon-products/products/copy-of-insteon-water-shutoff-valve-package-deal-1

Since this was going into a small ISY-994, Insteon-only location, I wanted something natively Insteon. I have the valve close when I leave or if a leak is detected. Rock-solid reliable, and the person I talked to at Innovative Home Systems was very helpful.

Smarthome was done then, but he still had a few I/O lincs on hand. I bought the whole package from him. The valve has an input for sensing closed and open. As others have mentioned, I connected the closed sensor to the I/O linc for confirmation.

The valve itself seems to be high quality.

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