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Adding Zigbee devices

Don

By Don
in ZMatter

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MrBill Advanced

MrBill

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Posted

For better help you should mention what it is you're trying to add.  and what specifically happens when it fails.   Your two line post above doesn't have enough information.

Also I don't own the device, so I haven't been following, but has UD enabled Matter portion yet?  originally it was shipping as "z-wave for now, update to follow".

 

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Don Member

Don

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Thanks for your suggestions.  I am trying to add a Sonoff S31  Lite smart plug, (works with Alexa and Smartthings) to my system.  It is a ZigBee Smart Plug.  There is no Z matter install in eisy so trying to add as Z Wave. 

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brians Advanced

brians

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Posted
2 hours ago, Don said:

Thanks for your suggestions.  I am trying to add a Sonoff S31  Lite smart plug, (works with Alexa and Smartthings) to my system.  It is a ZigBee Smart Plug.  There is no Z matter install in eisy so trying to add as Z Wave. 

Zigbee is not same as zwave. Zmatter board does not currently support zigbee. 

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Geddy Advanced

Geddy

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8 minutes ago, Don said:

Seems there are issues with Matter and Zigbee.

What makes you think that? 

The UDI Z-Matter board/dongle was released in November/Dcember 2022 with Z-Wave support available at time of release. Zigbee/Matter was slated for hopeful release in "early 2023", but hasn't been released yet. Currently Z-Matter still only supports Z-Wave (as you said, works well for you...great!). 

Just because you can't add Matter or Zigbee devices to the Z-Matter products doesn't mean there are issues. It's just not supported by the UDI Z-Matter product yet. 

 

Additionally, you keep saying "Z Matter"...

4 hours ago, Don said:

Z matter module

3 hours ago, Don said:

There is no Z matter install in eisy

 

"Z Matter" is not a platform/standard. "Z-Matter" is the device that UDI developed; "Z-Matter" board (for Polisy) or dongle (for Polisy or eisy). It stands for Z-Wave + Matter support ("Z-Matter"). 

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brians Advanced

brians

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@PatPendYes Zigbee is nice, but issue is that since it is an open standard and does not require licensing you will find compatibility issues. For example, in Home Assistant and Zigbee2MQTT, my Aqara P1 motion sensors go unresponsive after several hours when connected to a Sonoff S31 Lite plug. Nothing I can do except return them and try something else. I did add a couple Philips Hue bulbs and work quite well. Both networks in my house perform equally well but I only have 4 zigbee devices hooked up, whereas I have 22 ZWave devices. Pairing is about the same, except with S2 auth need to type in a code.

I don't think we will see Zigbee support from UDI. Too many legacy devices to support, but never know. I think their plan is to support Thread (Matter) exclusively. It is not even known if the radio in ZMatter will support multiprotocol both Thread and Zigbee at same time.

ZWave is a much stricter standard, and requires certification before can be sold as a ZWave device, and even still there are many issues. Zigbee is like the wild-west, anyone can make something called Zigbee.

 

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EJones01 Experienced

EJones01

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18 hours ago, brians said:

@PatPend

I don't think we will see Zigbee support from UDI. Too many legacy devices to support, but never know. I think their plan is to support Thread (Matter) exclusively. It is not even known if the radio in ZMatter will support multiprotocol both Thread and Zigbee at same time.

 

Then UD should remove it from their advertising !!! I spent money because it said(and still does) they will try to support Zigbee

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brians Advanced

brians

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9 minutes ago, EJones01 said:

Then UD should remove it from their advertising !!! I spent money because it said(and still does) they will try to support Zigbee

That is my opinion not UDI's, so they could still support Zigbee and I hope they do especially since they advertise it... I would clarify with them first, maybe they will actually answer... I had posted this question a while back and got no official answer, just speculation from other members. I also remember them saying they would probably support Zigbee radio first and Matter would come later.

Every other major hub seems to have no issue supporting Zigbee and then adding Matter later on, so the only reason I can think is because IoX never had Zigbee support, so is probably just as much work adding Zigbee as Thread (Matter).

Based on lack of news and updates on Matter and Zigbee, it is a bit concerning how quiet they are on this subject. Maybe they are hard at work on it and will just announce one day. This is one (of several) reasons why I moved  over to HA, but still keep Polisy as an Insteon bridge.

 

 

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lilyoyo1 Advanced

lilyoyo1

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46 minutes ago, EJones01 said:

Then UD should remove it from their advertising !!! I spent money because it said(and still does) they will try to support Zigbee

Unless you see a statement from Michel or any other UDI employee, all we can do on here is speculate as Brian has already alluded to in his original statement as well as his follow up to your response. Michel has stated the zmatter board is zigbee based and it will support Zigbee 3.0. 

As already stated by other members here, zigbee is a mess. Anyone can use the technology however they please. Because of that, it can potentially be a crapshoot whether or not something works with it and what features are supported even if it does work.

For example, the hue bridge will allow you to add some devices to it for control. However, its usually basic on/off control while other capabilities are left out such as color changing capabilities. 

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brians Advanced

brians

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ZMatter dongle appears to come with Zigbee hardware support, which is why the word Zigbee is silk-screened on it. Thread, for most part, uses same hardware as Zigbee but needs a firmware upgrade to support the protocol. If the device can do multiprotocol, it will be able to support both Zigbee and Thread simultaneously.

Thread is just a protocol which Matter can work over and is ipv6 based, it is not Matter in itself.

Matter is not a radio protocol, but it can currently run over Thread and Ethernet/WiFi which are both radio protocols.

It is my understanding that you could theoretically run Matter devices as long as you have a thread border router somewhere in your network (eg. Homepod Mini), and the controller just uses ethernet.

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xlurkr Advanced

xlurkr

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On 4/25/2023 at 1:47 PM, PatPend said:

I use a Hubitat as my ZigBee interface connected to IoX via a nodeserver.  Works great, in fact I like ZigBee a lot better than Zwave.  The signal is more robust and pairing devices is easier.

@PatPendAre you using the ST-Hubitat NS for PG 2.0?  That's what I'm using now for RA2, and I'm concerned it may not be a good long-term solution.  We can take this to IM or another thread if this is considered drift.  But since it's a possible "right now" solution for Zigbee, I feel like it's still on topic.

-Tom

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Riggins44 Experienced

Riggins44

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On 4/25/2023 at 4:47 PM, PatPend said:

I use a Hubitat as my ZigBee interface connected to IoX via a nodeserver.  Works great, in fact I like ZigBee a lot better than Zwave.  The signal is more robust and pairing devices is easier.

Can you, or anyone else that sees this, explain what it took to get Hubitat and IoX working together? I bought Hubitat Elevation last Spring because I was SO frustrated with Insteon's "demise" and I can never get a damn Z-wave added without hardly a lamb and a blood sacrifice and even then they are not terribly reliable even though I have enough (and a repeater or two) to create a mesh.

You mentioned Nodeserver, but is that the same as Polyglot? I have searched the Polyglot3 store periodically to see if there are anything to work with Hubitat (since we still don't have Zigbee support on the Z-Matter board). As it is, I can only control my Zigbee devices through Hubitat and even though I bought an eisy AND a Z-Matter/Zigbee/Z-wave board, I am frustrated that there STILL is zero support for Zigbee on eisy. I really don't want to have to use three or four hubs for home automation! (/end rant)

Anyone care to share how to get eisy to work with Hubitat in the mean time? I have the Home Assistant Device Bridge installed on HASS and the Hubitat can see and use it. But I don't know how to get Hubitat (Zigbee devices, etc) devices to show up on the eisy for control until we have Zigbee support.

Edited by Riggins44
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PatPend Advanced

PatPend

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20 hours ago, xlurkr said:

@PatPendAre you using the ST-Hubitat NS for PG 2.0?  That's what I'm using now for RA2, and I'm concerned it may not be a good long-term solution.  We can take this to IM or another thread if this is considered drift.  But since it's a possible "right now" solution for Zigbee, I feel like it's still on topic.

-Tom

@xlurkr Yes exactly right, I'm using Simplex Technologies' Hubitat Elevation nodeserver v0.1.32 running on Polyglot 2.0 to link a Hubitat C7 to my ISY994i.  The C7/Hubitat nodeserver/ISY combination has been reliable for the last year and a half, since I first got the C7.  So I'm very happy with this setup for now. 

One of the nice things about the Hubitat is the ability to create virtual devices, and map those to the ISY.  This is useful when you have a device on the Hubitat that's not directly recognized by the nodesever.  You simply define a virtual device on the Hubitat, map the actual device in the Hubitat to the virtual one using a script, and the virtual device will be available on the ISY.  Case study: Before the Insteon Mini Remotes were available again recently, I needed a wireless Decora switch and the only available alternative was a Zooz ZEN34 which is a ZWave device (and BTW 1/2 the price of an Insteon Mini Remote).  However the ZEN34 wasn't a device recognized by the nodeserver.  Using the above technique I was able to include the ZEN34 as a scene controller in the ISY.  This particular scene includes an Insteon 2477S (new style w/ 2 LEDs), an Insteon 8 button keypad, a Sonoff WiFi plugin switch (flashed with Tasmota and mapped to the ISY via the MQTT nodeserver), and the ZEN34.  I can control the lights using any of those four devices and it's very reliable.

@Riggins44 I'm not using an EISY which as I understand only supports Polyglot 3x, so if the Hubitat nodeserver is not available in a Polyglot 3x version then sadly you're SOL unless and until the Hubitat nodeserver gets ported to that newer, non-compatible version of Polyglot.  

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xlurkr Advanced

xlurkr

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6 hours ago, PatPend said:

until the Hubitat nodeserver gets ported to that newer, non-compatible version of Polyglot.  

@PatPendLet's work together to get @bpwwerto port the Hubitat NS to PG3, and support it going forward.  He has ported a couple of ST's PG2 NS's already, I think.  I just bought the new C-8 so I have an older C-7 I could send him to develop with.

-Tom

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mmb Advanced

mmb

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31 minutes ago, xlurkr said:

@PatPendLet's work together to get @bpwwerto port the Hubitat NS to PG3, and support it going forward.  He has ported a couple of ST's PG2 NS's already, I think.  I just bought the new C-8 so I have an older C-7 I could send him to develop with.

-Tom

I believe there is very little interest on the UDI side based on previous comments.

The C8 looks very nice, which makes me wonder how soon the Z-matter USB module will be updated...

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